bekdik
Honorary Master
It kind of relates to Telkom having a monopoly of ADSL
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S&P changes Telkom outlook to negative
- Thread starter jes
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It kind of relates to Telkom having a monopoly of ADSL
MickeyD
RIP
Anyone with the proper licence can build their entire own network totally separate from Telkom's network. That includes their own last mile.
bekdik
Honorary Master
How many have?
MickeyD
RIP
Licences? All the network operators. Neotel, Cell C, Vodacom, MTN, etc. can build their own ADSL or FTTH networks (fixed line) right now. Some already do, but only to corporates and businesses.
bekdik
Honorary Master
No
How many have built their entire own network totally separate from Telkom's network. That includes their own last mile?
If the answer is none, then Telkom has a monopoly over ADSL
MickeyD
RIP
Again, that was not your original question.
Question: why have they not done so yet? See here for lists of licencees. Ask them why they have not built their own networks including the last mile. http://www.icasa.org.za/LegislationRegulatory/LicensesandLicensees/tabid/80/Default.aspx
I'm always intrigued by these comments about all these "other countries in Africa with better Internet than us". Have you been to these countries and spent time using these networks? Are they as reliable as South African networks? Are they widely available and not just within 1 or 2km from the city center?
There is some amazing new infrastructure being built across the continent but it will be 5 - 10 years before they even glimpse the kind of infrastructure that we are privileged to have in ZA.
mielieman2006
Active Member
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Happy X-mas Telkom ^^
HavocXphere
Honorary Master
Kinda ambivalent about this. On the one hand...Schadenfreude...on the other I've got a sneaky suspicion that this will hit customers in an indirect way.
Sounds like they're using the main UI thread to do the check for new messages. Micro$oft fail
cozinsky
Expert Member
You are talking absolute nonsense. If you dare make such sweeping statements, surely you must provide some basis for it. Why do you say that Telkom is a failure? Substantiate yourself or your statement is totally pointless. Whether you like it or not, Telkom's ADSL service is superior to any wireless service.
Bern
Expert Member
Telkom have consistently made poor decisions for the last ten years, the major crumble started with selling the VC shares and then not investing the cash in their core business - terrestrial data networks. Add weak management and poor management systems and there is no surprise at this rating, rather surprise that it took so long to downgrade them.
On VC/MTN/etc provisioning networks, yes it is frustrating that they are taking so long, but it is not just a function of spending money. One of the biggest hurdles to provisioning your own network is dealing with local and provincial government to get permission- until they give you the go ahead you are stuck. try manage a business like this when just getting a decision may take anything from a month to years. Provincial and national government should actually take the initiative and work out a program with DFA etc to get a core network to every little town in SA, then the operators can look to invest in metro and last mile access using fibre/copper/wireless where there is a business case.
On VC/MTN/etc provisioning networks, yes it is frustrating that they are taking so long, but it is not just a function of spending money. One of the biggest hurdles to provisioning your own network is dealing with local and provincial government to get permission- until they give you the go ahead you are stuck. try manage a business like this when just getting a decision may take anything from a month to years. Provincial and national government should actually take the initiative and work out a program with DFA etc to get a core network to every little town in SA, then the operators can look to invest in metro and last mile access using fibre/copper/wireless where there is a business case.
Juice
Expert Member
I guess the government has other priorities, but you're right. Not that it should be done as a parastatal or in any way government run, but the government should put some political will behind it, otherwise there will be little incentive for operators to spend so much capital up-front with so little return in the short term. Infrastructure development is likely to result in an extremely long-term return on investment and if we believe Telkom, the infrastructure is running at a loss and needs to be cross-subsidised to make it affordable to consumers.
If you think how South Korea got to be the number one connected country on the planet, government drive is key. I just wouldn't want our government put too many fingers in the pie. Look at the mess they made of Telkom. If you can acknowledge that Telkom has made some bad decisions since the mid-nineties, you have to also acknowledge that our government was most definitely manipulating the puppet-strings and largely to blame. Telkom's profit-r(e)aping primarily benefited government, and some Elites (think Elephant Consortium). Maybe just some economical/tax incentives or something would be a better approach.
Juice
Bern
Expert Member
@ Juice - a tax incentive would be a great option, but the bigger issue is legislation stopping the guys who have money actually installing. On the tax, they would need to offer the incentives to a wholesale-only provider or something like that to ensure equitable access to the network, but that is not too complicated to set up - as you say it just requires some political will...
Gov just really needs to map out trenching routes and allow access.
Gov just really needs to map out trenching routes and allow access.
MickeyD
RIP
Telkom and 8ta face exactly the same hurdles when trying to build new networks.
It is here where the conflict arises... because of the above, the operators want access to the existing Telkom ducts (under the pretense of LLU).
bekdik
Honorary Master
My understanding is that the Cape Town municipality are already doing something along these lines.
I don't have a problem with that, Telkom can go cry a river (that way Telkom might be good for something).
MickeyD
RIP
Problem is we all know it will never happen (will be litigated 'til we are 6 feet underground!), so the other operators need to get a move on and start building their own.
InTheCube
Expert Member
Telkom digging their own grave, and they're more than halfway there already. Government are happily providing the spades and over-paying for the labour to do the digging. Pinky, I feel you sorry, to be inheriting this mess. You're probably the one person in Telkom that might be able to turn things around, though government interference and meddling will probably see your end.
The short version: Government needs to get out of Telecoms. Here is a short list of strikingly obvious government failures:
Here is a short list of telecoms success stories (or at least, non-disaster stories as above), where government had little-to-no involvement:
The short version: Government needs to get out of Telecoms. Here is a short list of strikingly obvious government failures:
- VANS
- Sentech
- Department of Communictions
- ICASA
- Infraco
- Telkom
Here is a short list of telecoms success stories (or at least, non-disaster stories as above), where government had little-to-no involvement:
- Vodacom (operating across Africa, the former life-blood of Telkom)
- MTN (operating across Africa, Middle-East and Asia)
- Cell C (although they have only recently started to shake up the industry, and force competition)
- Vox Telecom (VoIP)
- ECN (VoIP)
- MWEB (ADSL)
- iBurst (not the best, but doing relatively well)
- Broadlink
- Neotel (keep an eye on these guys over the next 2-3 years. Expect some great things. They are already solid on the business front in the major metros.)