SA’s first computers

Fsck I thought I was old and here you have old toppies talking about punch cards.
 
Splinter said:
Aaai. An interesting look at history of "computers" in SA being turned into another racial debate. Sigh.
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The point is that IBM was a massive enabler and active participant in making the lives of millions of South Africa a misery on a daily basis. Blacks were not allowed to live in so-called white areas without a pass, which was registered on an IBM and South African citizens would be arrested and jailed simply because they were looking for work. IBM cannot be proud of their role
 
Arthur said:
Perhaps. But until the late 1980s, IBM pretty much was the computer industry. It was larger than the next seven computer companies combined. A common phrase was "IBM and the Seven Dwarfs".
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True. I still enjoyed UCT's 36-bit Univac (later changed to Sperry Univac) :)
 
Chris.Geerdts said:
These innocent looking computers formed the basis for apartheid's systems for recording and controlling millions of people under the pass laws, influx control etc, and equipping the SADF and police to enforce apartheid and quench resistance.

Quick overview (although there's a lot more detail to be found): http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~cale/cs201/apartheid.comp.html
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It is likely that the tool which made the most crucial contribution to the system of apartheid was the computerized population register. The Plural Affairs Department maintained the passbook system on the more than twenty five million Africans defined as black. These records were all kept electronically on British-made ICL hardware. The Department of the Interior maintained the "Book of Life" files on the other seven million citizens classified as non-blacks using an IBM hardware system. The passbook records included data on "racial classification", name, sex, date of birth, residence, photo, marital status, drivers license, dates of departure from and return to the country, place of work or study, and fingerprints. One South African described the population register at work as,

Computers flashing out reference numbers, photocopies relayed by telephone, perhaps even instant transmission of fingerprints-all to keep track of members of the population. Sounds like George Orwell's 1984, doesn't it? Well it's South Africa's way of modernizing and streamlining its pass and influx control system
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Yet when the ANC does worse with the power of modern PCs and intelligent systems, everything is good and noble?
https://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/954489-Home-Affairs-launches-new-biometric-identification-system
 
Chris.Geerdts said:
The point is that IBM was a massive enabler and active participant in making the lives of millions of South Africa a misery on a daily basis. Blacks were not allowed to live in so-called white areas without a pass, which was registered on an IBM and South African citizens would be arrested and jailed simply because they were looking for work. IBM cannot be proud of their role
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Disagree. And to suggest they were an "active participant in making the lives of millions of South Africa a misery" is preposterous. There's a better case for blaming all SA taxpayers (which I also think is preposterous, btw).
 
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Necropolis said:
Your point being?

Clown.
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I made the point. That one cannot call something a 'history' and then proceed to leave out key features of the history. Just as one example from the article I mention "American corporation IBM was the largest computer supplier in South Africa throughout the years of apartheid. In 1978 alone, IBM's South African sales jumped 250%; total annual sales amounted to approximately three hundred million dollars in 1982. Not only did IBM contribute tremendous computing power to the South African apartheid system, but of the fifteen hundred South African workers employed by IBM in 1982, less than 20% were classified as coloured, black or Asian."
 
Arthur said:
Disagree. And to suggest they were an "active participant in making the lives of millions of South Africa a misery" is preposterous. There's a better case for blaming all SA taxpayers (which I also think is preposterous, btw).
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Not sure what you disagree with and on what basis. Certainly IBM was involved in 'sanctions busting' and although they eventually pulled out officially, late in the day, in 1987, in reality they simply continued as ISM.

Also, to pull from the above reference "IBM even marketed a "Law Enforcement System" software package, but later denied that it had developed or marketed it when IBM realized the product might jeopardize sales at home. "
 
Chris.Geerdts said:
I'm not sure who here regards it as good and noble but modern usage is definitely a lot more innocuous than administering the so-called 'influx control' under apartheid
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The point being is that you cannot label the system as Orwellian based on how it is used. It is Orwellian based on the fact that the data is collected in the first place.
 
konfab said:
The point being is that you cannot label the system as Orwellian based on how it is used. It is Orwellian based on the fact that the data is collected in the first place.
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The apartheid regime first defined racist laws to control citizens who had no vote. That's what the Sharpeville Massacre was all about ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_laws).

They then implemented computer systems to increase and refine their levels of control.

I see a massive distinction between that and a democratically elected government implementing a national ID system, although I agree that's the thin edge of the orwellian wedge
 
ponder said:
Fsck I thought I was old and here you have old toppies talking about punch cards.
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And still having to write the stuff in Fortran, waiting for a timeslot on the mainframe, then testing your code...
 
Chris.Geerdts said:
I see a massive distinction between that and a democratically elected government implementing a national ID system, although I agree that's the thin edge of the orwellian wedge
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Democratically elected government can be wrong to the same extent as evil one. Two examples: You had a 'bad' Zuma/Guptas just a moment ago, but now a 'good' Ramaphosa calls openly for a stricter control over a population, as a 'bad' Zuma didn't care and in result "secret service is in a disarray". .LOL.

As for the national ID system, it is neccessary for taxing, controlling migration, supplying social grants and medical care.

This unprecedented attack on IBM and few others is selective. In the same time South African mines were supplying precious minerals to the US, it is why SA government could afford buying such giant machine from IBM. However nobody in US is hunting for punishing 'Openheimers'. At the moment 16 minerals which were neccessary for a strategic war were available only in two places in the world: Russia and SA. US government should perhaps supply minerals from Russia in the preparation to the war with Russia, right? :) :) :)
 
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BigAl-sa said:
And still having to write the stuff in Fortran, waiting for a timeslot on the mainframe, then testing your code...
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Fortran is cool, still very prominent on super computers in the science field today, LISP is also very popular when it comes to AI. These old languages are still very relevant.

As a kid I taught myself basic, realised it's limitations and started dabbling in machine code and assembler and fell in love with assembler. Started on 6502 and moved up to 680x0. Came in handy when I studied engineering and I was helping everybody else out.
 
ponder said:
Fortran is cool, still very prominent on super computers in the science field today, LISP is also very popular when it comes to AI. These old languages are still very relevant.

As a kid I taught myself basic, realised it's limitations and started dabbling in machine code and assembler and fell in love with assembler. Started on 6502 and moved up to 680x0. Came in handy when I studied engineering and I was helping everybody else out.
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Believe it or not, I still have a couple of books on 6502 assembler (don't know why I haven't thrown them away).

Coming from Unix, I have always preferred C and hated it when I had to use Fortran. I eventually rewrote the code I was using in C for a PC. Even with a maths co-processor, it took about 5 minutes to do the sums. The mainframe took a few seconds. The advantage of the PC was that I could control the instruments I was using via RS232 and HPIB. (Doubt whether too many okes know what those are :D)
 
Chris.Geerdts said:
The point is that IBM was a massive enabler and active participant in making the lives of millions of South Africa a misery on a daily basis. Blacks were not allowed to live in so-called white areas without a pass, which was registered on an IBM and South African citizens would be arrested and jailed simply because they were looking for work. IBM cannot be proud of their role
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Why don't you stfu and go complain on another thread or go Fly you blerrie Dutchman.
 
smkungfu said:
Why don't you stfu and go complain on another thread or go Fly you blerrie Dutchman.
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This is a thread on the history of computers in SA. The first IBM tabulators came into SA in 1952 and one use was to manage the dreaded Pass Laws - in 1955 already.

IBM was not the only culprit. To quote the same source: "The Plural Affairs Department maintained the passbook system on the more than twenty five million Africans defined as black. These records were all kept electronically on British-made ICL hardware". The main purpose of this system was to control people.
 
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