SA bangs the piracy drum

[Joy-Energiser]

I agree with PeterC, there is no direct tangible effect from pirating oversee's software here in South Africa.It doesn't affect them in the slightest, mainly because we wouldn't have bought that software because of the ridiculous price in the first place.

and Oh god please would you people stop with the silly comparisons between
software piracy and whatever ridiculous scenario you have in mind(swimming in pools and such) .

I think most of the posters on here realise that pirating is at the very least immoral and try to justify their actions with the usual excuses. Well those that are old enough to understand capitalism anyway.

Nah some of us don't need to justify anything, we know its wrong, we don't care and we do it anyway.Who's gonna stop us ?

 

[JoSorc]

I agree with PeterC, there is no direct tangible effect from pirating oversee's software here in South Africa.It doesn't affect them in the slightest, mainly because we wouldn't have bought that software because of the ridiculous price in the first place.

and Oh god please would you people stop with the silly comparisons between
software piracy and whatever ridiculous scenario you have in mind(swimming in pools and such) .

Joy.

The point is that if I say please don't copy something that belongs to me. You have no right to do it. IT ISN'T YOURS!

 

[JoSorc]

I agree with PeterC, there is no direct tangible effect from pirating oversee's software here in South Africa.It doesn't affect them in the slightest, mainly because we wouldn't have bought that software because of the ridiculous price in the first place.

and Oh god please would you people stop with the silly comparisons between
software piracy and whatever ridiculous scenario you have in mind(swimming in pools and such) .




Nah some of us don't need to justify anything, we know its wrong, we don't care and we do it anyway.Who's gonna stop us ?

Yep. There's the wonderful new age Saffa attitude again. It's hardly any wonder that this country is in a state of lawless anarchy. How old are you? 15?

 

[Joy-Energiser]

Joy.

The point is that if I say please don't copy something that belongs to me. You have no right to do it. IT ISN'T YOURS!

Yes I know, and it's unfortunate that we can just do it anyway,Life isn't fair.We all know that,but there are different levels of morality for everyone.

In a country that is run by a corrupt goverment, has some of the highest crime rates in the world and where People are denied employment based on the colour of their skin,I'm afraid software Legitamacy just doesn't have a spot on the morality list at this stage.

 

[Joy-Energiser]

Yep. There's the wonderful new age Saffa attitude again. It's hardly any wonder that this country is in a state of lawless anarchy. How old are you? 15?

THat is cute, really.

The sad truth is that attitude is a product of this country.So just put your self righteous stance back in the box because no one really cares.

 

[JoSorc]

THat is cute, really.

The sad truth is that attitude is a product of this country.So just put your self righteous stance back in the box because no one really cares.

The attitude is a product of people like yourself. I have no problem with that at all. You steal, I worry about it. Life goes on.

 

[PeterCH]

@PeterCH - I don't get your argument... or am I getting you wrong?

Are you saying that if one person in the world bought a piece of software and everybody else copied it, the software company wouldn't lose revenue?

I think that scenario is implausible.

You can be guaranteed that next time the price will go up for the poor sod that actually wants to buy the legit copy. Sure, increasing the price is a failed strategy - the guy who wants to be legal loses out, the guys who write the software lose out, and the only people who benefit are the pirates.

Loose out against what? How do you decide how many copies you should be selling? What metric are you using to measure expected sales? The BSA in this article is using flawed arguments. I can give you a point if you're methodology is correct - for example: there are 15 engineering firms in JHB and each one needs 10 licenses of AutoCad. Now if you're only selling them 5 each and they don't have old copies and are not using an alternative product (competitor or FOSS) you can say that they're pirating 5 out of 10. But to generally look at the number of computers running Windows and expect each one to buy MS OFFICE - well that's crazy.

Which is why, as long as I buy legal software, piracy indirectly screws me over.

I think software vendors are screwing themselves over with high prices.

I had a copy of Adobe Production Suite for Windows, I was willing to buy Adobe Production Suite for Mac - but wanted an upgrade - the Adobe reps at Adobe.com said - NO. So I said: F-you and went with Final Cut Studio - in fact I wanted to re-evaluate Adobe - I had FCS all along. Sure they would have had to give me a discount, but they would still have made over a thousand dollars on the deal, as it was - they got 0. This weekend I bought the FCS 3.0 upgrade for R3K vs Adobe's R6K - with the FCS product rated better by professionals than Adobe rubbish anyway.

Apple is a company which sells hardware and very inexpensive superior software. I already told you how Apple's Color used to sell for $10,000 per license, they include it free with the $1000 FCS Suite - FCS is rated among many as the No1 product and others rate it No 2 vs Avid. $1,000 is very cheap IMO for a professional for such a high end package. It's the same with other Apple Pro-Apps.

iWork - a product superior to MS OFFICE sells for R899. Why buy OFFICE? Or use free OO.

 

[JoSorc]

I think software vendors are screwing themselves over with high prices.

I had a copy of Adobe Production Suite for Windows, I was willing to buy Adobe Production Suite for Mac - but wanted an upgrade - the Adobe reps at Adobe.com said - NO. So I said: F-you and went with Final Cut Studio - in fact I wanted to re-evaluate Adobe - I had FCS all along. Sure they would have had to give me a discount, but they would still have made over a thousand dollars on the deal, as it was - they got 0. This weekend I bought the FCS 3.0 upgrade for R3K vs Adobe's R6K - with the FCS product rated better by professionals than Adobe rubbish.

Peter, surely what you're describing is normal capitalism in action?

 

[PeterCH]

I think most of the posters on here realise that pirating is at the very least immoral and try to justify their actions with the usual excuses. Well those that are old enough to understand capitalism anyway.

LOL you're poor at allusions.

But give one bit of advice for you: Don't project. Don't expect other people to think what you think. It's a common issue with humans and a reason why we have prejudice and mistrust in the world. YOU are the one who may or may not still justify it for morality's sake. You are the one who doesn't understand capitalism - where supply and demand are linked.

Anyway remember: speak only for yourself.

 

[PeterCH]

Joy.

The point is that if I say please don't copy something that belongs to me. You have no right to do it. IT ISN'T YOURS!

Please tell me which product you develop so I can tell everyone I know not to license it (out of spite)

 

[PeterCH]

Peter, surely what you're describing is normal capitalism in action?

No, I'm describing how Adobe screwed itself out of a sale. They could have made an extra $1000 plus upgrade fees since. Of course they chose to save a few hundred bucks instead.

If the software was cheaper, I would maybe have purchased it. As is, I went with a SUPERIOR competitor's product anyway.

 

[PeterCH]

Yep. There's the wonderful new age Saffa attitude again. It's hardly any wonder that this country is in a state of lawless anarchy. How old are you? 15?

I'm older than you probably and I agree with that attitude.

Supply vs Demand.
In a market place a buyer is willing to spend x amount of money on something he needs. If the seller is not willing to sell it for that much the seller should keep his product but then not moan about poor sales.
(if someone else uses a copy - tough luck).

Be happy for the sales you have. Your product costs peanuts to replicate, unlike hardware makers who make tiny profit margins, once you've coded your masterpiece you can run off millions of copies at any price you want.
Toyota still has to buy aluminum, steel, plastic, rubber etc to build each and every car, you just flip a few switches at the CD Duplicator. Your world has a lot of advantages.

If your price does not meet the perceived value of the software - well maybe your software is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH to buy. Overinflated prices and egos go hand in hand.

 

[JoSorc]

I'm older than you probably and I agree with that attitude.

Supply vs Demand.
In a market place a buyer is willing to spend x amount of money on something he needs. If the seller is not willing to sell it for that much the seller should keep his product but then not moan about poor sales.
(if someone else uses a copy - tough luck).

Be happy for the sales you have. Your product costs peanuts to replicate, unlike hardware makers who make tiny profit margins, once you've coded your masterpiece you can run off millions of copies at any price you want.
Toyota still has to buy aluminum, steel, plastic, rubber etc to build each and every car, you just flip a few switches at the CD Duplicator. Your world has a lot of advantages.

If your price does not meet the perceived value of the software - well maybe your software is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH to buy. Overinflated prices and egos go hand in hand.

I'm 40. I've been in programming most of my working life. Sure it costs peanuts to replicate. Have you any idea how many 1000's of hours I've spent conceptualizing, planning and actually writing software? Have you any idea what sort of sacrifice it takes and how difficult it is to program? Go and spend 3 minutes writing a web-based login module flow chart and I'll show you everything you haven't included. I want to be rewarded for that.

 

[spiff]

More to the point, how did they arrive at 41%? Thumb suck?

yeah exactly!! so they sell 100 000 discs of ms office and assume that there is 100 000 pirated discs out there?? perhaps its THEM that r selling the pirated stuff

simple economics - if its too expensive it will generate its own black market!! take the drug market for instance! drugs r banned in most countries - but has that stopped the black market?? NO its fueled it to the tune of BILLIONS a year. fat chance these guys r going to stop an already thriving black market in SA / Africa / the world!!

bottom line is IF yr shheet is too expensive - U will create yr own black market!!

 

[Nutty Grandad]

It is all simply GREED!

Greed is evil
Greed is a carnal sin
Greed controls this world today

"Fair Trade" no longer exists!
When I was going to school, a long time ago, the father of a Jewish friend who had a little shop where we all hanged out, taught me a valuable lesson...
"Charles my boy", he said with an honest face, "5 cents in your pocket is better than no cents in your pocket" and this is something I have never forgotten! Applying this principle to my online shop today, I have managed to survive many years solely off the internet!

A software developer works for a few months on something, maybe even a year or two, and then expects to sit back and live forever on what he did! No fair trade in that!
Well if everything was like that there would be hardly anyone working now would there be?

Before my retirement, I was managing a department of a very large travel company, and our policy was NOT to mark up more than 10%. It was this very policy that made this company the largest in the industry!
So if they could apply "Fair Trade" and become a blue chip company, why can't others?

IT IS SIMPLY GREED!!
May all these GREEDY people rot in HELL one day!
the banks, the advertising and media moguls, the ISP's,Hellkom,... the list just goes on!

 

[spiff]

It is all simply GREED!

Greed is evil
Greed is a carnal sin
Greed controls this world today

"Fair Trade" no longer exists!
When I was going to school, a long time ago, the father of a Jewish friend who had a little shop where we all hanged out, taught me a valuable lesson...
"Charles my boy", he said with an honest face, "5 cents in your pocket is better than no cents in your pocket" and this is something I have never forgotten! Applying this principle to my online shop today, I have managed to survive many years solely off the internet!

A software developer works for a few months on something, maybe even a year or two, and then expects to sit back and live forever on what he did! No fair trade in that!
Well if everything was like that there would be hardly anyone working now would there be?

Before my retirement, I was managing a department of a very large travel company, and our policy was NOT to mark up more than 10%. It was this very policy that made this company the largest in the industry!
So if they could apply "Fair Trade" and become a blue chip company, why can't others?

IT IS SIMPLY GREED!!
May all these GREEDY people rot in HELL one day!
the banks, the advertising and media moguls, the ISP's,Hellkom,... the list just goes on!

well said!!

 

[JoSorc]

It is all simply GREED!

Greed is evil
Greed is a carnal sin
Greed controls this world today

"Fair Trade" no longer exists!
When I was going to school, a long time ago, the father of a Jewish friend who had a little shop where we all hanged out, taught me a valuable lesson...
"Charles my boy", he said with an honest face, "5 cents in your pocket is better than no cents in your pocket" and this is something I have never forgotten! Applying this principle to my online shop today, I have managed to survive many years solely off the internet!

A software developer works for a few months on something, maybe even a year or two, and then expects to sit back and live forever on what he did! No fair trade in that!
Well if everything was like that there would be hardly anyone working now would there be?

Before my retirement, I was managing a department of a very large travel company, and our policy was NOT to mark up more than 10%. It was this very policy that made this company the largest in the industry!
So if they could apply "Fair Trade" and become a blue chip company, why can't others?

IT IS SIMPLY GREED!!
May all these GREEDY people rot in HELL one day!
the banks, the advertising and media moguls, the ISP's,Hellkom,... the list just goes on!

You don't have a clue what it takes. I've spent more than 5 years working on my current project and have to supplement my income working after hours. I quite often spend 30 hours or more on a weekend coding. I'll decide what that's worth not some twat who thinks he can put a value on my knowledge, experience and time. I've spent more time studying, writing and than many highly paid professionals in their respective spheres.

 

[murraybiscuit]

the problem with piracy is that it's unlike other theft - the user ultimately has the ability to recreate the product and can thereby become a manufacturer themselves, without the costs of production, with the ability to gain revenue from the reproduced media. with most other products, the manufacturer is also the only person able to duplicate the product and thereby retains control of revenue.

@peterCH, i disagree.

to use your analogy of supply and demand:

in a free market, if you have x cash and you need x tool in order to create x product, you have choices:

1. buy a cheaper tool and sell your product cheaper
2. buy the more expensive tool and pass that cost on to the consumer
3. sell at the same price and pocket the profits yourself, which means you'll be undercut pretty quickly.
4. if a cheaper tool does not exist, it will soon, because the demand will arise

thus, supply, demand and competition regulate the free market because buyers have a choice.

the problem comes in when you decide not to buy the alternative, but to steal the tool.

this effectively means that:

1. your competition will go under (you will always be able to undercut them)
2. the tool manufacturer will go under (they get less and less revenue)
3. there is no incentive for other companies to provide cheaper tools, because you can always have the best one for free.

a market can't regulate itself when theft occurs. sorry. you're effectively competing with another company who is giving the product away for free (which could be yourself in the case of piracy). thus, theft does not facilitate competition within the industry.

clearly i'm not talking about people who are willing to pay for their software and are having licensing issues. i agree with you on adobe's failed cost and license strategy. which is why apple and microsoft will continue to take market share from them - because the demand makes competition a viable proposition.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You don't have a clue what it takes. I've spent more than 5 years working on my current project and have to supplement my income working after hours. I quite often spend 30 hours or more on a weekend coding. I'll decide what that's worth not some twat who thinks he can put a value on my knowledge, experience and time. I've spent more time studying, writing and than many highly paid professionals in their respective spheres.

You`re so special.

 

[JoSorc]

You`re so special.

Tis the voice of the lobster..