SA lifts moratorium on fracking

Archer said:
What makes fracking evil again?
I understand there is a risk of polluting ground water in the area, but what else?
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Zeppelins man, Gas filled Zeppelins, now theres an good idea.

On a more serious note, life does not exist without water, so do we really need to look for another reason.
 
Mila said:
that is not enough?
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Everything has a risk. Coal (air pollution worse than anything), nuclear (meltdowns and radiation), oil (its fun when tankers leak right?). Making a car uses stacks of water, so does beer, beef, etc etc. They all pollute too (ok, not with a risk to ground water though).
So what else is there? Is the process poorly thought out, is there a high risk in that? I dont get all this negativity for something that at first glance seems as safe as most things in life.
 
Garyvdh said:
I guess I'll repeat it here as well....

Money Talks!

And by money I mean the money that the fuel consumers are paying to the energy giants.

If you use fuel, then it is YOUR money that they are using to push this through.

You don't want fracking to go ahead... stop consuming fuel.
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Can't really fault you there.

I'm not over the moon about fracking but take a look at how we are tearing the country apart just so that we can have energy (and consume it).
If you want to excited about fracking then get excited about all the ways we mine and pillage this land. Then get excited about how we support the oil cartels and fund wars just so we can drive our cars.


Oh yes... and don't for get to complain the next time the petrol price goes up, or when Eskom raises tarrifs.

Or when we have load shedding.
 
Paul_S said:
Destabilizes the ground causing tremors/earthquakes.
Releases methane into the air causing more greenhouse gas problems (global warming).
Brings radioactive materials to the surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing
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Coal is more radioactive (fact - more than a nuke power plant even)
Coal releases more air pollution too (fact - gas burns cleaner)

:confused:
 
Archer said:
Coal is more radioactive (fact - more than a nuke power plant even)
Coal releases more air pollution too (fact - gas burns cleaner)

:confused:
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and we have not learned our lesson? We want Green energy and preach green energy but we decide to torture nature some more.
 
Mila said:
and we have not learned our lesson? We want Green energy and preach green energy but we decide to torture nature some more.
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There is a risk, that does not mean it will happen. So unless the risk is too high, which it does not seem like it is to me, what is the issue?
 
Garson007 said:
<Snip>

Why am I telling you this? You see, the conglomerates refuse to enhance the purity of their fuels and overhaul their refineries. Why not just legislate it then? The conglomerates have threatened to withdraw from the country if such legislation should come to pass. What is the government to do? Not only are these conglomerates with-holding cleaner fuels from us, but they make us pay twice as much for motor-vehicles as we should. If that wasn't the only problem this actually causes more old road vehicles on the street, which are all basically death traps waiting to fall apart.
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That's not quite true. Most of refineries in South Africa will gladly convert to Euro 5 (the current European standard). However, this will require massive capital investment and as you know in South Africa the profits of oil refineries are effectively limited by the basic fuel price and wholesale margins as calculated by the Department of Energy.

If the refineries have no hope of recovering their expenditure (as would be the case with regulations as they are) there is very little chance of them upgrading the refineries (they are for-profit companies) and that's why we are stuck with Euro 2 at the moment.

The refineries are in discussions with government to subsidise the capital outlays so that the price regulations can continue to operate as they are at the moment.

There's also the problem that most the big refineries (SAPREF, Caltex Milnerton & Natref) are quite old. It might be better to just to build completely new refineries but the timelines on those are similar to big power stations (6 - 8 years).

So, don't expect any changes to the fuel standards soon...

[Edit]
There's also the current predicament in that the external oil companies' refineres (all of them excluding Sasol & Natref) were designed to use mostly Iranian oil as input - which cannot be simply substituted with something else with out spending large amounts of money on new equipment. With the current sanctions against Iran, South Africa is one of a few countries that are allowed to continue importing oil from Iran, but that might change in future.
 
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Mila said:
and we have not learned our lesson? We want Green energy and preach green energy but we decide to torture nature some more.
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I'd love green energy.

The harsh reality of green energy is you need to use a frack load less of it to make it viable.
 
To all those who say its no worse than current mining practices or current coal burning etc. Thats like a little kid saying "But Jonny does it so why cant I!"

It is easier to stop something before it happens. Trying to undo the mining and coal industries is impossible. Not allowing Fracking is possible. We should be looking to renewable power not trying to nurse a dying beast.
 
Archer said:
There is a risk, that does not mean it will happen. So unless the risk is too high, which it does not seem like it is to me, what is the issue?
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Why then not use neuclear?

The fact is they will fuc up the Karoo. The risk is : will they fix it or will it be like acid mine drainage and the mines that were ever reabilitated.

You are naive if you think this government gives a rats ass about jobs and money for the people. How long before this is the next arms deal with greater farther reaching damage that we can never foresee. This will be bad for nature people and this country.

You do not see the issue. Maybe you need new specs.
 
Archer said:
I bet they are also dependant on energy... Still confused
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How much energy can they need? Solar power? Fracking is lining ANC cadres pockets. This will do nothing for the people of the Karoo.
 
SA guavamint is almost bankrupt. They are using fracking as a revenue so source as Taxes are at breaking point, tollgates are not working and people are using less fuel (ergo, less levy income)

Cash needs to come from somewhere to pay for govt loans
 
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