SA Politics Thread Part 10 : The GNU Has Crashed

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ToxicBunny said:
No matter who their strategy people are, those results wouldn't have changed. The ANC don't negotiate in good faith, we've seen this time and time again, also when you negotiate with the ANC who are you negotiating with given there are wildly different competing ideologies in that "party".
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It was stupid not to go for speaker in Gauteng at that first vote and because their votes are so close they should have insisted on being a part of deciding the cabinet (to short-circuit the dark one, they could have decided the cabinet prior to the vote as after the vote he has authority to decide on his own). It was poor of them not to demand those things as a first step. When the ANC refuse then they know from the jump that the ANC won't engage in good faith and they pull out quick. How did they fail at those basics?!
 
Sideshow Bob said:
True but propaganda is inevitable in today's world and one could argue that it is done to counter the propaganda from other parties.

If one is fairly neutral, one can see DA has many people that have delivered results. Schreiber for example for GNU - only problem I found with him was that he tried to take credit for something his predecessor did. He really didn't have to do that. Of late, he has not done it so he probably learned from that. Pappas has done some good work in muni. Brink did quite well while he was around.

I really struggle to find such names in ANC ministry/local municipalities. I could mention a specific name in Gauteng but that will not be useful as he is the most hated person after Zuma here. LOL.
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This is when the whataboutism starts. It's either he's doing a good job (digitisation, border control etc.) or he's not. Being in that position allows his to claim those victories, it's part of politics. Just like ASA claiming victories in Tshwane for whatever Brink put into place...
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
To be fair anyone would struggle to negotiate with the ANC when they believe they are still in charge. ASA, Bosa and Rise are about to learn that the hard way.

Sometimes you have to take a few losses for the sake of some stability. I think they learnt their lesson from Gauteng, which is why they stuck to their guns on the budget and didn't vote without a written agreement.

Part of the issue with the GNU negotiations was the constitution itself, where you need to constitute a government within 2 weeks or whatever. It leaves very little time for negotiation and getting written agreements into place. This worked to the ANC's advantage in Gauteng where they could negotiate after the fact...
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I think they don't care... they just want to get in on the deal to eat.
 
R13... said:
It was stupid not to go for speaker in Gauteng at that first vote and because their votes are so close they should have insisted on being a part of deciding the cabinet (to short-circuit the dark one, they could have decided the cabinet prior to the vote as after the vote he has authority to decide on his own). It was poor of them not to demand those things as a first step. When the ANC refuse then they know from the jump that the ANC won't engage in good faith and they pull out quick. How did they fail at those basics?!
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Now you're dealing with the differing ideologies, it was likely that the path taken at National level was replicated down to Provincial, and Panty behaves differently...

If you deal with the DA, you would generally get a unified approach be it national, provincial and local in terms of how they do things.
 
TheChamp said:
And since we have now warmed up to the cleaning tax after the DA introduced it in Cape Town, I still insist there is nothing wrong with it in principle, whether it is in Tshwane or CT, the new government of Tshwane has proven to everyone that they take financial management very seriously, even to the hard to please DA supporters who are still crying for Cilliers Brink.

The revenue collection is improving, they are sticking to debt repayment agreements,they have improved cash reserves. The MMC for environment has been hard at work cleaning the filth in the city, there is totally no reason to doubt their intentions with the cleaning tax, it will be used the way it's intended to be used.
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I'd be annoyed with a Cleaning levy/tax if it was implemented, but also if it was implemented, I'd expect a fundamental improvement in the cleanliness of the city in very short order.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
This is when the whataboutism starts. It's either he's doing a good job (digitisation, border control etc.) or he's not. Being in that position allows his to claim those victories, it's part of politics. Just like ASA claiming victories in Tshwane for whatever Brink put into place...
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And to also claim the failures, claiming victories is easy for our politicians, the point of departure always comes when it's time to claim failures.

For me the easiest way to go about it would be to acknowledge the work of your predecessor, It honestly makes you look like a better person and it will also gives you some credibility when it's time to blame them for something.
 
TelkomUseless said:
I think they don't care... they just want to get in on the deal to eat.
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They've already been screwed. The tax increases can't be reversed, and they're not getting cabinet positions for their vote. Fix Fokol just backtracked that they can only reconfigure the GNU if some parties leave, which means they're out and propped up the ANC for nothing.

They got screwed at a national level like how the DA got screwed in Gauteng. You never ever reach an agreement with the ANC if it's not in writing...
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
They've already been screwed. The tax increases can't be reversed, and they're not getting cabinet positions for their vote. Fix Fokol just backtracked that they can only reconfigure the GNU if some parties leave, which means they're out and propped up the ANC for nothing.

They got screwed at a national level like how the DA got screwed in Gauteng. You never ever reach an agreement with the ANC if it's not in writing...
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I still think there would tenders etc coming their way (not documented anywhere). ?

or am I smoking my socks ?
 
TheChamp said:
Guys, as flattering as it is, can we get back on topic and stop discussing people, what if you don't like what I say here? I also don't like what other people say but waking up in the morning and discussing them just look pathetic.
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TheChamp said:
Remind us this, remind us that.

Do you now understand why I annoy you much? You are a gang and you expect everyone to conform to your gang's principle, that's the only reason you and the rest of the gang feel I am disturbing your peace.
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Can we rather do this, can you rather do that. Trying to tell people what to do. GTFO with that. You discuss what you want, others will discuss what they want.
 
TelkomUseless said:
I still think there would tenders etc coming their way (not documented anywhere). ?

or am I smoking my socks ?
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I'd say you're smoking your socks, the ANC won't do anything anymore, they aren't bound by any agreements that AuctionSA or BOSA etc could ever actually fight.
 
TelkomUseless said:
I still think there would tenders etc coming their way (not documented anywhere). ?

or am I smoking my socks ?
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And the common DA thinking again comes to the fore. If it was the DA who voted for the increase, it would have been in exchange for growth, jobs and all high IQ things.

If it's ActionSA who voted for the increase, it is in exchange for corrupt tenders, even though you cannot point at a single incident of corruption ActionSA was implicated in ever since their inception.

Do you now understand why ActionSA and the other parties wants nothing to do with the DA? It's the holier than thou attitude, that's why your new BFFs are MK and the EFF.
 
TheChamp said:
And the common DA thinking again comes to the fore. If it was the DA who voted for the increase, it would have been in exchange for growth, jobs and all high IQ things.

If it's ActionSA who voted for the increase, it is in exchange for corrupt tenders, even though you cannot point at a single incident of corruption ActionSA was implicated in ever since their inception.

Do you now understand why ActionSA and the other parties wants nothing to do with the DA? It's the holier than thou attitude, that's why your new BFFs are MK and the EFF.
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If the DA had voted for the increase, it would have been accompanied by written amendments to the fiscal framework, not non-binding recommendations.

Try harder Champy.
 
TheChamp said:
And the common DA thinking again comes to the fore. If it was the DA who voted for the increase, it would have been in exchange for growth, jobs and all high IQ things.

If it's ActionSA who voted for the increase, it is in exchange for corrupt tenders, even though you cannot point at a single incident of corruption ActionSA was implicated in ever since their inception.

Do you now understand why ActionSA and the other parties wants nothing to do with the DA? It's the holier than thou attitude, that's why your new BFFs are MK and the EFF.
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And the vat would decrease next year with DA. ANC = Vat increase now, and next year again. No job prospects.

You always leave out the details... just like I pointed last time.

And once again.. why would any party vote for cost of living increase this year AND next year for their people ? Only if they score something or they got played. And ASA said they didn't get played...

Ai Champo.. you always tell half truths on this subject... everytime.
 
Hush9300 said:
It has nothing to do with an echo chamber but rather the mentality. It's hard to debate, as well as read ad nauseum, someone like @MalcomZ, that blames everything on a specific event that ended 30 and change years ago... Apartheid did untold harm and its effects are still felt but it is not a crutch that gets to be used into perpetuity. It's even harder, though, having a debate with someone like @TheChamp who will accept and champion self-defeating fiscal policies because a particular party is seen to lose. It is neanderthal mentality...
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Haha, it is odd that you would bring up the concept of Neanderthal mentality when it is us, of European descent, that have Neanderthal DNA!
 
Captain Slog said:
Haha, it is odd that you would bring up the concept of Neanderthal mentality when it is us, of European descent, that have Neanderthal DNA!
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All homo sapiens have Neanderthal DNA
www.princeton.edu

New study identifies Neanderthal ancestry in African populations and describes its origin

After sequencing the Neanderthal genome, scientists discovered all modern humans carry some Neanderthal ancestry in their DNA — including Africans, which was previously not known.
www.princeton.edu www.princeton.edu
 
Captain Slog said:
Haha, it is odd that you would bring up the concept of Neanderthal mentality when it is us, of European descent, that have Neanderthal DNA!
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I don't think he used it in genetic sense but maybe as a pejorative sense.

AI tells me

The concept of a "Neanderthal mentality" suggests a set of behavioral and cognitive traits that might be linked to Neanderthal ancestry in modern humans. While it's not a direct biological link, some studies have explored the possibility of certain personality traits or predispositions being associated with having more Neanderthal DNA. These traits might include social fear, depression, promiscuity, autism, and bipolar tendencies
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