SA Politics Thread Part 10 : The GNU Has Crashed

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Major Boredom said:
I suspect MK is going to be feeding off the ANC and EFF. This VAT debacle is not going to help the ANC
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The ANC can lower vat to 10% or even put it at zero, and they will still not get those KZN voters back as long as Zuma is still there, yes they will get some but not the majority, they will still have to push to go above 20% to boost their national average.

The ANC has never enjoyed majority support in KZN to begin with, they were beaten by Inkatha in the first election, they benefitted from Zuma's supporters when Zuma was still in the ANC, so don't look for complicated reasons why the ANC is struggling there.
 
FiestaST said:
I dug a bit deeper & you're sorta right re: BMW & the Rosslyn plant:

USA only get these two models, so spot on there:



Having said that BMW Rosslyn produces more than the just the 30d/40e X3 models, we do them all bar the top dog M50:
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Yeah , I was replying in context of the USA sanctions not overall for everything
Currently majority of the rosslyn manufacturing is exported to the EU , not usa.

So from a tarrif perspective in SA , there is not much impact on BMW, but they have impact in other countries

Merc on the other hand I have no idea about
 
TheChamp said:
The ANC can lower vat to 10% or even put it at zero, and they will still not get those KZN voters back as long as Zuma is still there, yes they will get some but not the majority, they will still have to push to go above 20% to boost their national average.

The ANC has never enjoyed majority support in KZN to begin with, they were beaten by Inkatha in the first election, they benefitted from Zuma's supporters when Zuma was still in the ANC, so don't look for complicated reasons why the ANC is struggling there.
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Nothing complicated at all
Basic human reactions

ANC has pissed off everyone with a brain with their vat increase and no austerity
Yes , hard core supporters wont change , but there are still those who are marginal supporters and they will jump ship
 
Major Boredom said:
Nothing complicated at all
Basic human reactions

ANC has pissed off everyone with a brain with their vat increase and no austerity
Yes , hard core supporters wont change , but there are still those who are marginal supporters and they will jump ship
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I obviously cannot change your mind if you insist, but the simple fact is that this is the second ward the DA has lost this month, despite their vat heroics, why were they not able to grow their support there?

The ANC improved from 10% to 15% post VAT increase so how does all that gel with your reasoning?
 
TheChamp said:
I obviously cannot change your mind if you insist, but the simple fact is that this is the second ward the DA has lost this month, despite their vat heroics, why were they not able to grow their support there?

The ANC improved from 10% to 15% post VAT increase so how does all that gel with your reasoning?
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But MK didn't support VAT and they were the biggest winners. We just need to accept that KZN is MK country, which despite being the largest, nobody wants to work with. They're stuck with the unholy ANC+DA+IFP alliance for the foreseeable future...
 
TheChamp said:
I obviously cannot change your mind if you insist, but the simple fact is that this is the second ward the DA has lost this month, despite their vat heroics, why were they not able to grow their support there?

The ANC improved from 10% to 15% post VAT increase so how does all that gel with your reasoning?
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This is nothing to do with the DA . This is going to be MK territory
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
But MK didn't support VAT and they were the biggest winners. We just need to accept that KZN is MK country, which despite being the largest, nobody wants to work with. They're stuck with the unholy ANC+DA+IFP alliance for the foreseeable future...
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That's why I say the VAT argument doesn't makes sense, it simply cannot hold its own for all the scenarios, but of course I do get the temptation of everything being attributed to vat.

Indeed KZN is a Zuma country, there was no VAT increase in 2024.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
ANC fighting to protect corruption again...


www.news24.com

Two reports, same damning findings into Msunduzi municipality, but ANC wants probe blocked | News24

A Msunduzi municipality internal audit and an Auditor-General report offer a glimpse into what Section 106 investigators might uncover at the troubled municipality - a probe which the ANC is trying to derail.
www.news24.com www.news24.com
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What are the reason for the ANC's opposition? The investigation Buthelezi is trying to launch will be perceived as biased because he is from the IFP, and he will see the opposition as the ANC stalling the investigation.

If he cannot use his powers as MEC to push it through, the best way would be to ask the SIU to be unleashed on the municipality.
 
Whenever these ANC hardcore supporters and career politicians tell you that a VAT increase is necessary, remind them that in the same R2.6trillion budget, 31% of that budget was allocated to government salaries.

Now thats not to say that most government workers are useless, in fact, there are very many who work damn hard and deserve considerably more than they currently get, but with that, theres also hundreds who leach tax payers money, and thousands of ghost employees
 
TheChamp said:
What are the reason for the ANC's opposition? The investigation Buthelezi is trying to launch will be perceived as biased because he is from the IFP, and he will see the opposition as the ANC stalling the investigation.

If he cannot use his powers as MEC to push it through, the best way would be to ask the SIU to be unleashed on the municipality.
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Good question, they haven't given a reason why it's being opposed. It's serious enough to open a section 106 investigation, signed off by COGTA. Which is based on the AG's findings.

Whether the ANC feels they are being targeted by the IFP or not, if you have nothing to hide then you have no reason to oppose it. Especially since it's based on the AG report.

Here's another article on it...

ANC councillors plan on blocking a Section 106 investigation into corruption instituted by the KwaZulu-Natal Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs (Cogta) MEC Thulasizwe Buthelezi.

This emerged on the day the ANC KwaZulu-Natal task team vowed before business industry titans that the party would ensure clean governance where the ANC governs, including at the crises-ravaged Msunduzi Local Municipality.

Section 106 of the Municipal Systems Act gives powers to the Cogta MEC to establish a formal inquiry that will probe maladministration and corruption.

On Friday, the ANC-led Msunduzi council held a meeting in which it became clear that the Section 106 investigation into municipal affairs invoked by Buthelezi won't see the light of day.

News24 has seen Friday's council agenda, which includes the Section 106 investigation marked under "confidential items", which are usually discussed behind closed doors.

News24 understands from several municipal insiders that the ANC in Msunduzi and its smaller coalition partners banded together to resolve that ANC Mayor Mzi Thebolla should write to Buthelezi to oppose the investigation and to appoint lawyers to fight it.

Buthelezi's spokesperson Senzelwe Mzila said the MEC is "clear" on the investigation issue: "There will be consequences if Msunduzi municipality or any other municipality does not cooperate with the Section 106 investigation."

Mzila added:

The MEC urges the leadership of Msunduzi municipality to comply for the sake of transparency and good governance.
Mzila didn't respond when asked whether the MEC was aware of the council proceedings from Friday when ANC councillors expressed the intention to derail the investigation.

The investigation will focus on:

  • Political interference in procurement processes;
  • The abuse of municipal assets;
  • Elevated levels of political instability;
  • Deficiencies in consequence management;
  • Contraventions of supply chain management regulations;
  • Irregularities in recruitment procedures;
  • Instances of maladministration, fraud, and corruption.
Numerous attempts to get the ANC chief whip in the municipality, Sandile Dlamini, to respond proved futile, and he didn't respond to a request for an interview on the matter.

Thebolla didn't respond either, but their comments will be added when received.

News24 understands from a well-placed insider that national Cogta Minister Velenkosini Hlabisa gave Buthelezi the green light to institute the investigation.

Meanwhile, ACDP councillor Rienus Niemand said: "Cogta has already appointed the committee and they are intending to do the investigation. There is no way that they will be stopped as things stand now.

"The ANC government then voted to employ lawyers and advocates to fight the investigation [at the council meeting]. This is shocking as the issues are also part of the material irregularity [found] in an AG report."

Niemand said he was shocked by the behaviour of the ANC and its smaller partners.

"The municipality is in dire straits financially, and it's beset with material irregularities as reported by the auditor-general," Niemand said.

Mike Mabuyakhulu says the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal is

Mike Mabuyakhulu says the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal is being renewed. (Jabulani Langa/Gallo Images/Daily Sun)
Gallo Images
He added that instead of supporting the investigation to uncover these serious issues, the ANC councillors have now decided to oppose the investigation by taking legal action at the expense of the taxpayers.

"This is a total abuse of power. What do they have to hide? The ACDP condemns such irresponsible, wasteful behaviour and calls on the MEC for Cogta to investigate the motives and uncover the rot that has plunged the capital city into a mess.

"The ACDP will ensure that this abuse is stopped and the culprits brought to book."

Earlier on Tuesday, ANC provincial coordinator Mike Mabuyakhulu told a meeting with the business sector that the new provincial task team is renewing the party in the province.

He and ANC provincial convener Jeff Radebe have been publicly declaring that there is no room for corruption in the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal.

Mabuyakhulu said building a capable, ethical and developmental state is essential for creating an environment where businesses can thrive.

He said the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal is working tirelessly to enforce good governance.

"The ongoing service delivery issues, social instability and other challenges necessitate decisive action to restore trust [to unlock] KwaZulu-Natal's vast potential."

Radebe said: "The ANC acknowledges one profound truth: Any renewal of the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal, and eThekwini in particular, is impossible without walking hand in hand with the business sector."
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TheChamp said:
That's why I say the VAT argument doesn't makes sense, it simply cannot hold its own for all the scenarios, but of course I do get the temptation of everything being attributed to vat.

Indeed KZN is a Zuma country, there was no VAT increase in 2024.
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This is why I laugh at a lot of the commentary

VAT atm is something that is only of note to a small section of the voters currently
Its effects have not yet been felt by the greater voter community
Once VAT becomes active and its effects fully felt through the whole cost chain then I think you will see voter change
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Good question, they haven't given a reason why it's being opposed. It's serious enough to open a section 106 investigation, signed off by COGTA. Which is based on the AG's findings.

Whether the ANC feels they are being targeted by the IFP or not, if you have nothing to hide then you have no reason to oppose it. Especially since it's based on the AG report.

Here's another article on it...


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I never said anything about targeted though, I am saying they might feel the MEC is impartial on the matter, the same way the DA did when Maile intervened in Tshwane.
 
www.news24.com

Consequence of not reversing VAT hike 'too severe for ANC to contemplate', says ActionSA | News24

As political parties in the National Assembly scramble to reverse the 0.5 percentage-point VAT hike, Herman Mashaba's ActionSA has requested a second meeting with the ANC to gain "clarity" on legal pathways to do so.
www.news24.com www.news24.com

  • ActionSA is seeking a second meeting with the ANC to explore ways to reverse the 0.5 percentage-point VAT hike before 1 May, citing severe consequences if unresolved.
  • BOSA leader Mmusi Maimane is investigating legislative methods to adjust or withdraw the VAT hike under current laws.
  • ANC discussions with other parties continue as the VAT and Budget impasse strain the GNU.
As political parties in the National Assembly scramble to reverse the 0.5 percentage-point hike on VAT, Herman Mashaba's ActionSA has requested a second meeting with the ANC to gain "clarity" on legal pathways to do so.
ActionSA chairperson Michael Beaumont told News24 the party had written to ANC secretary-general Fikile Mbalula requesting an audience.
Beaumont remains confident the 0.5 percentage-point VAT hike could be reversed before 1 May.
Meanwhile, BOSA leader Mmusi Maimane said he was investigating the mechanisms needed to withdraw the proposed VAT hike.

The two parties were instrumental in advancing the fiscal framework over the line on 2 April when some of the ANC's partners in the government of national unity (GNU) turned against the party.
The ANC has been meeting parties represented in Parliament to resolve the impasse.
READ | Godongwana sees no alternative to VAT hike
Beaumont said he was confident the looming VAT hike could still be reversed.

He said:
I also think the consequences of not doing so would be too severe for the ANC to contemplate; it's something we've conveyed during every minute of meetings we've ever had with them on the matter.
Beaumont said he believed ActionSA had given the National Treasury and Finance Minister Enoch Godongwana enough time to embark on a governance process.
"We have respected that there is a separation between party and state. I think enough time has passed for that process to have been dealt with, and that's why we're saying it's now time to provide clarity to a nation that is confused.
"Institutions are planning for a VAT increase, and yet we know that the majority of Parliament is actively working to stop it. So, it doesn't make any sense for us to drift on any longer," Beaumont said.
READ | 'Cut the fat': Mashaba criticises government's R3.4bn foreign missions bill
Maimane said work was under way to determine the legislative avenues to reverse the VAT hike.
"I'm still trying to figure out what is the legal mechanism because the Budget is governed by law and all related matters that speak to the withdrawal of VAT, the introduction of VAT, the Taxation Amendment Bill are pieces of legislation," Maimane said.
He said he was also trying to establish if the fiscal framework could be withdrawn or adjusted.
"If the minister can set a date as to when VAT can be enacted or adjusted... is there not a possibility in the same law that envisages that all of that can be changed, or can you set up a different date?" Maimane said, adding that "all of these discussions are taking place".
The ANC is exploring the possibility of inviting the two parties to join the governing pact.
Though Maimane told News24 that any questions related to "resetting" the GNU ought to be directed to the ANC and its partners, he said next week's meeting with the ANC would likely be used to further unpack the ongoing impasse and bring about stability in government.
"We've always talked about the fact that we want stability within the government more than anything. Whatever you do with the GNU, you need to ensure that it is a functional entity. That is the work that we are simply advancing, and I'm waiting to hear how we can stabilise that conversation because all of us can agree that uncertainty is not helping," Maimane said.

BOSA expects to meet with the ANC "sometime next week", he said.
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Spiralling because they're starting to figure out they got played by ANC.
 
Sultan Mustafa said:
www.news24.com

Consequence of not reversing VAT hike 'too severe for ANC to contemplate', says ActionSA | News24

As political parties in the National Assembly scramble to reverse the 0.5 percentage-point VAT hike, Herman Mashaba's ActionSA has requested a second meeting with the ANC to gain "clarity" on legal pathways to do so.
www.news24.com www.news24.com


Spiralling because they're starting to figure out they got played by ANC.
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Daft twats had ALL the means necessary in the committee, and in Parliament to stop the VAT hike...
 
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