SA Politics Thread Part 12

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The_Right_Honourable_Brit said:
The DA must not be fooled by overtures made by the untrustworthy Mashathile. The Alex mafia are a very corrupt faction within the ANC!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1994261614267101315
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Yea.. I wouldn't trust the ANC to fix anything. I trust them to fk it up more.

Why have race based quotas? Why not be more investor friendly ? Less red-tape, cheaper electricity etc etc etc ... the money would flow in and more jobs for EVERYONE ?

Nah... more race crap. Because then they can control the masses with their grants.
 
TheChamp said:
Not a surprise, it is a rather thankless job.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1994120896630673424
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For the extraordinary nothingness Ms Batohi demonstrated, this should have hundreds of applications flooding in. Lekker salary for doing nothing ? And you can earn side income by selling samoosas. Ms Batohi hasn't indicated whether she will continue her samoosa sales though so I need to find someone else soon.
 
wingnut771 said:
The South African Police Service (SAPS) closed most of its specialised units in a phased process that primarily took place between 2000 and 2009, during the tenure of National Commissioner Jackie Selebi.
Key events in the closure and restructuring process:
  • 2001: Then-Commissioner Selebi announced that most specialised investigative units would be consolidated into three main units: the Organised Crime Unit (OCU), the Serious and Violent Crime Unit (SVC), and the Commercial Crime Unit (CCU). Long-standing units like the South African Narcotics Bureau (SANAB) and the internal Anti-Corruption Unit were closed down at this time.
  • 2003: The SAPS confirmed that 288 of the former specialised units had been closed, with the exception of those dealing with child protection and sexual offences.
  • 2006-2008: A further round of restructuring and disbandment took place during this period.
  • 2009: The process of closing or decentralising units was largely complete by this time, and the former police minister Nathi Mthethwa spoke of reviewing the disbandment.
The closure led to a significant loss of expertise in investigating complex crimes and had a negative impact on the fight against serious and violent crime. The Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences (FCS) units were later re-established in the early 2010s following a review and public pressure. The re-establishment of other specialised units has been a subject of ongoing debate and calls from police unions and civil society for many years.
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Don't forget to include the disbandment of the Commando System* during this period, which has had severe repercussions today, including being part of the political fallout with the US. Had the Commando System been in place, aside from greatly reducing farm murders, they would not be the political talking point they are either.

It is almost as if it was intentional to gut the policing of the country.

*While nominally a military unit, the Commados usually acted under the SAP/SAPS.
 
thestaggy said:
Don't forget to include the disbandment of the Commando System* during this period, which has had severe repercussions today, including being part of the political fallout with the US. Had the Commando System been in place, aside from greatly reducing farm murders, they would not be the political talking point they are either.

It is almost as if it was intentional to gut the policing of the country.

*While nominally a military unit, the Commados usually acted under the SAP/SAPS.
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:thumbsup:
The South African commando system was disbanded between 2003 and 2008, following President Thabo Mbeki's announcement on February 14, 2003, that the system would be phased out. The process of disbanding was a government-led decision, intended to be replaced by specialized police units.
  • Announcement: The official announcement to disband the system was made on February 14, 2003, by President Thabo Mbeki.
  • Phased out: The complete process of phasing out the system, including its last units, took place between 2003 and 2008.
  • Reason: The decision was politically motivated, partly due to the system's association with the apartheid era and a perception that it only represented white farming interests.
  • Replacement: The government had stated that the system would be replaced by specialized police units, though some sources suggest the promised replacements never fully materialized.
 
thestaggy said:
Don't forget to include the disbandment of the Commando System* during this period, which has had severe repercussions today, including being part of the political fallout with the US. Had the Commando System been in place, aside from greatly reducing farm murders, they would not be the political talking point they are either.

It is almost as if it was intentional to gut the policing of the country.

*While nominally a military unit, the Commados usually acted under the SAP/SAPS.
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Would the Commando thing have passed constitutional scrutiny though? I am struggling to understand how it would fit into the post apartheid criminal justice system.
 
thestaggy said:
Don't forget to include the disbandment of the Commando System* during this period, which has had severe repercussions today, including being part of the political fallout with the US. Had the Commando System been in place, aside from greatly reducing farm murders, they would not be the political talking point they are either.

It is almost as if it was intentional to gut the policing of the country.

*While nominally a military unit, the Commados usually acted under the SAP/SAPS.
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Given how Jackie was a bit of a criminal himself, it does kind of follow on that the gutting of our law enforcement capability in this country has been 100% intentional from various angles.
 
I M D said:
WHy would there be a constitutional problem ?

en.wikipedia.org

Commando System (South Africa) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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The Commando System was a mostly voluntary, part-time force of the South African Army,<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando_System_(South_Africa)#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>
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This right here already looks like a problem to me, is the SANDF allowed to perform everyday policing duties? Because I recall how South Africans go berserk every time the SANDF is unleashed on the streets for one reason or the other.
 
TheChamp said:
Would the Commando thing have passed constitutional scrutiny though? I am struggling to understand how it would fit into the post apartheid criminal justice system.
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It was supposed to be replaced by something more politically palpable, but that never materialised, or whatever was supposed to fulfil that gap has clearly failed.
 
TheChamp said:
This right here already looks like a problem to me, is the SANDF allowed to perform everyday policing duties? Because I recall how South Africans go berserk every time the SANDF is unleashed on the streets for one reason or the other.
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They acted under the SAP/SAPS with cells reporting directly to the nearest police station, so this would have been a very easy official integration with SAPS.

The constitution wasn't the problem. Political optics were.
 
thestaggy said:
It was supposed to be replaced by something more politically palpable, but that never materialised, or whatever was supposed to fulfil that gap has clearly failed.
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Okay, that I can agree with, you will know how much I supported the Amapanyaza and the role they could play in crime fighting but if they could not be incorporated into the system, there was no way the Commandos could be.

At some point I do believe we as residents are the biggest enemy to our own safety, the push to disband the Commando was political and the push to disband Amapanyaza was also political, at the end of the day, the end user who is a vulnerable citizen is the one who suffer, all for narrow politics.
 
thestaggy said:
They acted under the SAP/SAPS with cells reporting directly to the nearest police station, so this would have been a very easy official integration with SAPS.

The constitution wasn't the problem. Political optics were.
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They would have been challenged and their system would never have survived legal scrutiny the same way Amapanyaza could not, regardless of how effective they were.

From my layman position, our laws simply do not allow anything that is not properly defined to perform policing duties, so the very fact that they were part of the SANDF was already a problem, clever South Africans throw massive tantrums every time the SANDF is deployed to assist the police, and run to courts and do a sort of funny things.

So if the SANDF has legal constraints to be fully utilised to fight crime, how was this division of the SANDF going to be permanently deployed to do SAPS duties?
 
TheChamp said:
Okay, that I can agree with, you will know how much I supported the Amapanyaza and the role they could play in crime fighting but if they could not be incorporated into the system, there was no way the Commandos could be.
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TheChamp said:
They would have been challenged and their system would never have survived legal scrutiny the same way Amapanyaza could not, regardless of how effective they were.

From my layman position, our laws simply do not allow anything that is not properly defined to perform policing duties, so the very fact that they were part of the SANDF was already a problem, clever South Africans throw massive tantrums every time the SANDF is deployed to assist the police, and run to courts and do a sort of funny things.

So if the SANDF has legal constraints to be fully utilised to fight crime, how was this division of the SANDF going to be permanently deployed to do SAPS duties?
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The Special Task Force is effectively a paramilitary unit within the SAPS. Their roots are in the Rhodesian War where SAP units were deployed to the Rhodesian border and used in counterinsurgency and guerilla operations. The Commandos would have slotted right in alongside them as a fully professional specialised paramilitary unit. They had the training, skills and expertise your average police officer didn't, and they could be used to counter criminal activity in a way that aligned with our policing and constitutional frameworks.

And agreed on the Amapanyaza. A great asset in areas in desperate need of policing that could be easily capacitated and integrated if there was the desire to do so.

TheChamp said:
At some point I do believe we as residents are the biggest enemy to our own safety, the push to disband the Commando was political and the push to disband Amapanyaza was also political, at the end of the day, the end user who is a vulnerable citizen is the one who suffer, all for narrow politics.
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100% agree with you.
 
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