SA vs London

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Skinner

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From: http://www.news24.com/News24/Columnists/Georgina_Guedes/0,,2-1630-2022_2395384,00.html
Staying in South Africa
18/09/2008 09:30 - (SA)

Georgina Guedes

I have just returned from two weeks in London. I had a wonderful time, saw my friends, ate at some fine establishments, used fabulous public transport, but at the end of it all, I am very, very happy to be back home.

I was in London to attend a friend's wedding, and the week before the wedding, I took part in the hen party, which started out as a fairly laid-back affair, but soon turned to debauchery.

At some point, a group of girls - all of them South Africans living in London - started to discuss South Africa. They mentioned that a friend of theirs, living in South Africa, had sent them an email discussing the glorious weather that we'd been having.

But then, a week later, the same friend wrote to tell of the hijacking of a family member, and the unanimous conclusion among all the overseas South Africans was that a bit of good weather wasn't worth the daily risk to your safety.

It's an interesting conundrum, and those of us living in South Africa have obviously made the other decision - that weather, space and quality of life are worth the risk of becoming a victim of crime.

The London lifestyle

I love London, I love visiting there, and I love how cultural activities catering to just about every interest and way of thinking are available every day. But every time I visit and stay with a friend, I look at their lifestyle and am very grateful that it's not mine.

Life in London is hard work, and it's expensive. There may be a world of cultural and epicurean opportunities available to everyone who lives there, but they cost so much that they can't be taken advantage of that often. And as soon as they have kids, people have less time and less money, and babysitters are so expensive, that they actually never leave the house.

The weather is terrible. It's there every day. Every day, the dank, damp, endless grayness casts a shroud over London. It's miserable. Aside from the impact this has on mood, the laundry never dries.

The weather is a big factor, because in London there is no space, so a family of four might live in the equivalent of a starter apartment in South Africa. The entire interior space is perpetually draped with laundry, because it won't dry in the fine drizzle perpetually soaking whatever postage stamp of exterior place the home might have.

So you want to get out, and you can, but you need to don a rain coat, take an umbrella, put the rain cover down on your child's pram, and then you wonder haplessly in your local park (because getting on the public transport in this get up is pretty intolerable and no one drives in London), where you can't do anything much anyway, because all of this paraphernalia doesn't lend itself to unbridled romping in the fields.

The public transport is great, and as a visitor to London, for me, the novelty hasn't worn off. I ride the tubes for the joy of riding the tubes (and locals think I'm odd). But I could see how having a daily route to work, in peak times that required me to be sardined into a cramped and often smelly space with a thousand other bored commuters could start to get me down. Londoners hate the tubes, and with a little imagination, it's not hard to see why.

And as convenient as the public transport might seem, it does limit you to your own area. Best friends who live at opposite ends of London don't see each other for months because the idea of traveling the distance is unbearable. And if you don't make arrangements months in advance, you won't even get to see the people in your own area - that's just how London works.

There's no popping in for a braai when the fancy takes you, no dropping in because you were in the area, and no casual phone calls to say, "we're having breakfast down the road, why don't you join us?"

Be part of the solution

Then there's South Africa. As a nation, we have huge problems - there's no denying it. But we're also a country with so much potential. I want to stay here and be part of the solution, part of a country that can show the rest of the world that democracy can work in Africa, and decisions can be made for the good of everyone.

And people talk about the racism (from both sides), and the crime, and the financial uncertainty, but I think that most South Africans are an optimistic bunch who just want what's best for their country.

On my first evening back home, I took my dog for a walk in my local park. As we made our way along the trail, I encountered so many people - black and white - who make eye contact, smile and say hi. This is in stark contrast to London, where a greeting is met with suspicion, or if it's returned, a curt nod of the head is all that will be proffered.

I felt great to be home, among people who really do want to make a connection. We're going to be OK. We've just got to try to get the national mood up.

Well, whaddya know - someone else that sees the comparison exactly as I do. This just goes to prove the points I've made before. It's good to see that I am right. I've actually highlighted the points I paid particular attention to in previous posts.
 
I do not think it is a fair comparison to make as London is one of the most expensive cities in the world. We all know about the weather, and thank goodness for that (cricket fans will understand ;) )

But having said that it the writer personal feeling, and one thing for sure, London, or England for that matter, are ot an option.
 
I do not think it is a fair comparison to make as London is one of the most expensive cities in the world. We all know about the weather, and thank goodness for that (cricket fans will understand ;) )

But having said that it the writer personal feeling, and one thing for sure, London, or England for that matter, are not an option.

And neither was the comparison aiming to compare SA to the rest of the world. It was specifically aimed at SA vs London, and quite appropriate since many South Africans go to London or want to go to London, not knowing what they are letting themselves in for.
 
I do not think it is a fair comparison to make as London is one of the most expensive cities in the world. We all know about the weather, and thank goodness for that (cricket fans will understand ;) )

But having said that it the writer personal feeling, and one thing for sure, London, or England for that matter, are ot an option.

London is a place for singletons to go to make money and sow some wild oats.

No one I've spoken to with young children has seriously considered London as a final destination.

The whole thread is a bit of a strawman.
 
And neither was the comparison aiming to compare SA to the rest of the world. It was specifically aimed at SA vs London, and quite appropriate since many South Africans go to London or want to go to London, not knowing what they are letting themselves in for.

London is not a destination of choice for families. The Brain drain is not going to London. The young and the restless are going to London. (Including young ozzies, kiwis etc)
 
What exactly are they comparing London to? There are no cities in South Africa equivalent to London, however not all of England is like London.

Bit of a pointless article isn't it?
 
What exactly are they comparing London to? There are no cities in South Africa equivalent to London, however not all of England is like London.

Bit of a pointless article isn't it?
Bit of a pointless article isn't it? - Now isn't that what you'd expect!


London is obviously a very popular city.
 
I read through all of the comments underneath the article, and it seems most people agree with the sentiments in the article (unlike on this forum). So in other words, they also agree with me. :cool: And there are lots of comments.

Just shows all the negativeism on this forum. :(
 
I read through all of the comments underneath the article, and it seems most people agree with the sentiments in the article (unlike on this forum). So in other words, they also agree with me. :cool: And there are lots of comments.

Just shows all the negativeism on this forum. :(

Maybe you're part of the wrong forum then? Or do you like to bash heads with all the people here that don't see your pov?
 
I'm not going to get into the is-not-is-too debate, but allow me to make a few comments.

The weather is terrible. It's there every day. Every day, the dank, damp, endless grayness casts a shroud over London. It's miserable. Aside from the impact this has on mood, the laundry never dries.

Every time I read this on these forums, I look out the window and see a blue sky. It's one of those cup-is-half-empty things. People love to complain about how terrible the weather is, while sitting indoors on a bright warm sunny day.

The entire interior space is perpetually draped with laundry, because it won't dry in the fine drizzle perpetually soaking whatever postage stamp of exterior place the home might have.

No different from when I lived in an apartment in the Western Cape. Weeks of endless drizzle, clothes hanging all over the place, never quite drying unless you stick it in a tumble dryer.

and then you wonder haplessly in your local park

Again, cup is half empty, isn't it. Look at this the other way. There parks all over the place where it's safe to take your kids and/or pets to play, any time.

Londoners hate the tubes, and with a little imagination, it's not hard to see why.

For the same reason I hated the hour long (or longer) drive into Sandton every morning - all of 4km. At least you can read your paper or catch some more shut-eye without causing an accident.

Best friends who live at opposite ends of London don't see each other for months because the idea of traveling the distance is unbearable. And if you don't make arrangements months in advance, you won't even get to see the people in your own area - that's just how London works.

I can guarantee you those are the same people who needed to plan months in advance to visit between the East Rand and West Rand or between JHB and PTA.

There's no popping in for a braai when the fancy takes you, no dropping in because you were in the area, and no casual phone calls to say, "we're having breakfast down the road, why don't you join us?"

We do that all the time, and not just the Antipodeans. I was in town just yesterday for some personal admin. Called up a friend who works nearby (like, 30 minutes away) and said exactly that - "I'm happen to be in town, meet for dinner?" Had a lovely time.

People always talk about "London" when really referring to Zone 1 (i.e. Central London). London is a huge place. Move two zones out and you can find big houses with big enough gardens to invite 30 people to your braai. My last flat was bigger than any flat I've lived in in S.A., and the back yard was comparable to the three bedroom house I had in Randburg. We did actually have 30 people over for a braai once, and there was more than enough space.

And to say that people with families don't move here too is just uninformed. I know three couples who came here with families, all three with young children, ranging from newborn to 6 years old at the time. Of everyone I know who have moved here permanently, these couples are the happiest with their choice.

Which is not to say there aren't people who don't like it here - I know several. All I'm saying is a lot of the complaints can be dealt with by a change in attitude. Never seeing your friends is nothing less than you deserve if you're willing to take the trouble to meet up.
 
If SA was better than the UK, then why are there so many of us here?

She writes loads of crap. The weather is NOT always grey.

We braai plenty in the UK, and we meet up with friends for meals a lot more than in SA. There are MANY more places to eat and drink in the UK. (I do however miss a good SA steak with a good basting sauce :) Public transport this side is WAY better and much safer. If you are going for a good piss-up, then just catch a cab.

I find many people that love to talk crap about the UK don't have the legal right to stay in the UK. Many of us that have the choice have chosen the UK.

"Georgina Guedes is a freelance journalist." - who knows - She probably needed to submit a story for her pay cheque and had to come up with some or other crap.
 
the troll is reaching, bigtime - trying to compare apples and oranges.

you have to be getting a nice salary from the ANC or its affiliates, to waste pixels trying to compare an ancient, well-established, globally celebrated city thats been going since the Romans, to the very short-lived, violent prison-encampment of Johannesburg.

propaganda bollocks, innit?
 
1) I see this becoming another Skinner FAILthread! (TM)
2) You can't compare an ENTIRE COUNTRY with one city! That's insane! Rather compare JHB CBD with London and we'll see how they match up.
3) Whoever drops by unannounced at my house here in SA will leave disappointed.
 
Seconded... please accept my vote that this is indeed a Skinner EpicMegafailThread (TM)

I have it on good authority that many respected forumites on this forum, especially some veterans here, are getting a little bit gatvol of Charl a.k.a. Skinner.

I am also tired of hearing how one city is being compared with an entire country. I am tired of seeing posts starting with "here we go....." and a whole diatribe about how kuk SA is, etc.. etc... and then, in another topic he claims he is coming back to SA... apparently the ETA is Dec '08. At least I have, sometimes, the balls to call a spade a spade, but why oh why do we have to be subjected to this kind of spam. He has a very big mouth about SA and it's problems, and how cool life is in Dusseldorf, Monaco, etc... and then he still wants to come here. What for? That is not a question for me to answer, but, the day that Skinner actually makes a meaningful contribution to this forum, and by that I mean, no trolling under the guise of "being of help" or "interested" in what's going on, is the day he might get some sort of respect from me. Until then, sorry no can do.
 
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It's all these bloody liberals on News24. The editor (Chris Roper) is the biggest suck-up to the ANC, and News24 comment moderation is a farce. It hardly lets any controversial/alternative view through.
 
It's all these bloody liberals on News24. The editor (Chris Roper) is the biggest suck-up to the ANC, and News24 comment moderation is a farce. It hardly lets any controversial/alternative view through.

I agree with that. You're right. And some people just suck it up as if it is candy.
 
Seconded... please accept my vote that this is indeed a Skinner EpicMegafailThread (TM)

I have it on good authority that many respected forumites on this forum, especially some veterans here, are getting a little bit gatvol of Charl a.k.a. Skinner.

I am also tired of hearing how one city is being compared with an entire country. I am tired of seeing posts starting with "here we go....." and a whole diatribe about how kuk SA is, etc.. etc... and then, in another topic he claims he is coming back to SA... apparently the ETA is Dec '08. At least I have, sometimes, the balls to call a spade a spade, but why oh why do we have to be subjected to this kind of spam. He has a very big mouth about SA and it's problems, and how cool life is in Dusseldorf, Monaco, etc... and then he still wants to come here. What for? That is not a question for me to answer, but, the day that Skinner actually makes a meaningful contribution to this forum, and by that I mean, no trolling under the guise of "being of help" or "interested" in what's going on, is the day he might get some sort of respect from me. Until then, sorry no can do.

Please have a look again at my other related post:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=133257&p=2061144
 
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