SAA New Aircraft?

Naks said:
you can put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig :whistle:

the 'new' A330 is still based on old technology, the A350 is a far better plane with composite structures, new avionics, air control, etc.

a quick search: https://www.quora.com/How-are-the-Airbus-A350-and-A330-different
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Again, we didn't go out and say the A330 is better or equal to the A350 (although some airlines feel the A330neo is on par). However the improvements in this Quora article may seem great, but at the end of the day is not "substantial" in terms of breakthroughs. Both still get the job done in a similar fashion. We need to think about this from an operational perspective and not a "oh look at that cool thing" perspective. Sorry, can't help it - I'm a pilot. I think the A350 is amazing (it excites me a lot!), but it's not many years ahead of the current A330.

Airlines don't care about - "There are only two hydraulic systems, called Yellow and Green on the A350. The A330 still needs a third system: the Blue system." It makes us pilots' lives better and easier, but we don't really matter in the equation. Safety isn't necessarily compromised in either case.

Airliners care about this - will the extra moola I have to pay for this A350 really be worthwhile for the routes I fly and the number of pax I usually have (particularly important when you look at the current oil prices)?
 
Idiosyncratic said:
I'll let it slide this time, but next time you make a comment like that when referring to an A330......!
You better be glad airliner doors can't open at 35,000ft.
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:D

The passenger market is changing: a lot of travellers now choose their airlines based on the aircraft flying the route, so that might make the difference between bum on seat or not.

I know cattle class is much of a muchness, but for the discerning flyer, it is worthwhile to fly on a better plane esp on long haul routes.
 
Naks said:
:D

The passenger market is changing: a lot of travellers now choose their airlines based on the aircraft flying the route, so that might make the difference between bum on seat or not.

I know cattle class is much of a muchness, but for the discerning flyer, it is worthwhile to fly on a better plane esp on long haul routes.
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Passenger comfort on say a Jetstar B787 (very nice aerie) is trash compared the comfort on SAA's oldest A340s. Your aircraft isn't everything. I've enjoyed flights (when I'm flying as pax) on the older A330s more than on the newest B777s. Doesn't mean much. Aircraft type has only a marginal influence on pax comfort. Yes, some pax are desperate to fly on the A380 (who doesn't want to fly on the "super-jumbo"), and they purposely avoid B777s on the same route for that reason. However, the typical A380 config makes it marginally less comfortable than the typical B777. Do most people care? Nope. The same applies to the "new" A350s and B787s - for now. That's because of hype and not so much because they are more comfortable in reality.

The biggest impact an A/C type has on pax comfort is noise. This is my opinion. Up front in the cockpit I of course don't give a darn, but noise is a big factor for most. Besides that, not much is dependent upon type. Airlines can setup the inside of their aeries the way they want them. In fact, I've heard stories of airlines purposely providing less comfort in newer A/C with pax going around claiming the "new" aerie had more room etc. It's all in the mind. At the end of the day, pax like yourself are small in number and don't cover the extra $20 million SAA would have to spend to get you on board :)
 
The current version of the A330 has seen huge improvements from when it was first launched. What people seem to forget is that over the life time of a model, incremental improvements are made on engines, cabin layouts etc. The MTOW alone has seen really good updates. Now, with those upgrades and the lower cost per plane, it makes a lot of sense to buy it. With the A330Neo coming soon, same story. Yes, it is based on a old design, but, huge improvements on the engines with the Rolls Royce Trent 7000's mounted on its wings and more passengers per flight compared with the current version puts it in a sweet spot between the current version and the A350. So it has about a 15% improvement on the current version, but not as great as the A350, but still at a lower purchasing price than the A350, so they are hitting that spot of airlines that cant really afford the A350 airliners, or dont really need the insane range of the A350.

What must be remembered is that the airline business is a strange one. One model of airliner does not fit all airline routes that a particular airline serves when you take into consideration the cost per airliner, the capacity, the MTOW and the fuel consumption and even things like hot and high performance out of airports like Joburg. There really are a lot of things to consider.
 
Ockie said:
The current version of the A330 has seen huge improvements from when it was first launched. What people seem to forget is that over the life time of a model, incremental improvements are made on engines, cabin layouts etc. The MTOW alone has seen really good updates. Now, with those upgrades and the lower cost per plane, it makes a lot of sense to buy it. With the A330Neo coming soon, same story. Yes, it is based on a old design, but, huge improvements on the engines with the Rolls Royce Trent 7000's mounted on its wings and more passengers per flight compared with the current version puts it in a sweet spot between the current version and the A350. So it has about a 15% improvement on the current version, but not as great as the A350, but still at a lower purchasing price than the A350, so they are hitting that spot of airlines that cant really afford the A350 airliners, or dont really need the insane range of the A350.

What must be remembered is that the airline business is a strange one. One model of airliner does not fit all airline routes that a particular airline serves when you take into consideration the cost per airliner, the capacity, the MTOW and the fuel consumption and even things like hot and high performance out of airports like Joburg. There really are a lot of things to consider.
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Spot on. The A330 is better in terms of what SAA needs at the moment. I feel the A350 would be a good replacement for the A340s when the oil price goes up again though.
 
Idiosyncratic said:
Spot on. The A330 is better in terms of what SAA needs at the moment. I feel the A350 would be a good replacement for the A340s when the oil price goes up again though.
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I agree. What SAA can do for example is use the A330's on routes with a connecting hub in Africa. They have been talking for a long time about establishing a hub in West Africa, and to a degree they have done this with Accra or Lome I think. Flights stop there and then continues on to USA. In this model you would make South Africa cities a spike route, instead of a hub by using a more central location in West Africa as a hub. So they can offer two kinds of flights if they go for the A350 replacements in the future and phase out the A340's. Do connecting flights to places like USA and Europe via West Africa and offer lower prices. The A350's can then be used in direct flights to same cities or more far flung cities as a bit of a premium price for those that dont like connecting in West Africa.
 
Anyone see the A350 1000 test flight 2 weeks ago? That is the most beautiful aircraft to date.
 
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