Sars under siege

[saturnz]

How does one glitch/bug in the system mean I have no clue what I'm talking about? And how is that an indicator of a failed program? Do most people not get paid within a day? Does the system not process your submission within a couple of seconds? Have we not plugged many loopholes? Is it not the most efficient gov institution? Do not more people than ever before pay tax?

Do you want go back to the paper based system - drop eFiling etc. all together? Go stand in queues or mail your tax form like in the good old days!

Being on the end user bitching part gives you a very narrow view of what's been done for you. You have no idea the influence this program has had on your daily life (and not all of it is tax related).

And as somebody that spent a considerable amount of my career on this stuff, sat through long nights because of SARS's draconian approach to timelines I take exception to an end user telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when all she does day after day is click a submit button on a screen.

The point is that the queues at SARS branches have grown over the years, so people are actually still standing in queues with their paper documents, in and out of filing season. Small businesses do not get their VAT refunds for months, crippling their operations. Efiling has done something, but the overall modernisation drive has also put limits on staff to perform their work.

If you consider the cost and the period its been implemented over, alot more could have been done, and the fact that the queues are so long and prolonged suggests something has seriously gone wrong.

 

[Celine]

The point is that the queues at SARS branches have grown over the years, so people are actually still standing in queues with their paper documents, in and out of filing season. Small businesses do not get their VAT refunds for months, crippling their operations. Efiling has done something, but the overall modernisation drive has also put limits on staff to perform their work.

If you consider the cost and the period its been implemented over, alot more could have been done, and the fact that the queues are so long and prolonged suggests something has seriously gone wrong.

the thing is many people don't know how to complete the return on e-filing and not only that many people don't have computers. SA is a third world country people must not expect every single person in this country to have a computer in their possession.

 

[Hamster]

the thing is many people don't know how to complete the return on e-filing and not only that many people don't have computers. SA is a third world country people must not expect every single person in this country to have a computer in their possession.

I'll give you that. I don't know how to fill out that form neither do I know how to fill out the VAT and Company Income Tax forms which I've been more involved in. More work for you guys.

But when you consider that only 6% of the population pay tax and that they have the mobile app initiative going (last time I checked anyway) the availability of computers isn't that big an issue.

As far as queues go - surely that is a good thing. More people are paying tax lessening the burden on the current 6% (in theory). If I'm not mistaken almost 50% of income tax was file electronically this year.

Costs...well...yeah. A lot can be said about how money is spent in this country but at least in SARS's case they are covering those costs through the sheer amount of money they collect.

 

[saturnz]

I'll give you that. I don't know how to fill out that form neither do I know how to fill out the VAT and Company Income Tax forms which I've been more involved in. More work for you guys.

But when you consider that only 6% of the population pay tax and that they have the mobile app initiative going (last time I checked anyway) the availability of computers isn't that big an issue.

As far as queues go - surely that is a good thing. More people are paying tax lessening the burden on the current 6% (in theory). If I'm not mistaken almost 50% of income tax was file electronically this year.

Costs...well...yeah. A lot can be said about how money is spent in this country but at least in SARS's case they are covering those costs through the sheer amount of money they collect.

If you look at the tax to gdp ratio its been more or less constant, so more people queuing at SARS is actually not contributing anything. On the flip side of that small businesses, which is recognised as the engine of employment creation, are being destroyed by slow VAT refunds.

If you think only 6% of the population pay tax then I'm not sure why I'm evening talking to you.

 

[Hamster]

If you look at the tax to gdp ratio its been more or less constant, so more people queuing at SARS is actually not contributing anything. On the flip side of that small businesses, which is recognised as the engine of employment creation, are being destroyed by slow VAT refunds.

If you think only 6% of the population pay tax then I'm not sure why I'm evening talking to you.

I had that number wrong. 6 million people, so closer to 12%

 

[R13...]

I had that number wrong. 6 million people, so closer to 12%

You'd do well as a government number manipulator somewhere, I hear SAPS are on the lookout for people like you.

 

[Hamster]

You'd do well as a government number manipulator somewhere, I hear SAPS are on the lookout for people like you.

I misquoted one number and this is what I get, a bunch of keyboard warriors that ignore the rest of the posts. Meh.

 

[AchmatK]

I misquoted one number and this is what I get, a bunch of keyboard warriors that ignore the rest of the posts. Meh.

Did you expect anything less from your fellow MyBB forumites.

 

[R13...]

I misquoted one number and this is what I get, a bunch of keyboard warriors that ignore the rest of the posts. Meh.

You think the number of tax payers should be worked out from new borns to the elderly on their death beds?

 

[Hamster]

You think the number of tax payers should be worked out from new borns to the elderly on their death beds?

I'm not a numbers guy, but I suppose it should if everyone from new borns to the elderly is supported by them.

 

[Vrotappel]

you have no clue what you are talking about. there is a huge glitch in this system and I can verify this for you. if the taxpayer is not on your profile you do NOT know what is going on yet the practitioners number can be so easily used fraudulently making it look like the practitioner submitted the returns for a particular tax payer.

If that is true did you take it up with the Tax Ombudsman?

 

[Mila]

SARS has been leaking tax money for many years now. It's almost as bad as the RAF, with just much bigger piggy banks to tick their fingers in.

 

[AfricanTech]

While I feel sorry for Cecile who has been bitten by fraud, efiling enabled me to dispense with my Tax Practioners services and do my taxes in 15 minutes (if that) - no fuss.

Whatever the other faults at SARS, efiling has been brilliant for me.

 

[AchmatK]

While I feel sorry for Cecile who has been bitten by fraud, efiling enabled me to dispense with my Tax Practioners services and do my taxes in 15 minutes (if that) - no fuss.

Whatever the other faults at SARS, efiling has been brilliant for me.

For individuals, it's definitely very efficient. For other tax types and for practitioners, there are some improvements that can still be made.

 

[saturnz]

I had that number wrong. 6 million people, so closer to 12%

6 million people may be registered to pay income tax, but that doesn't mean 6 million people pay tax.

On the issue of modernisation (and not efiling) being a failure.

There are about 8 points which SARS wished to address in terms of modernisation, it hasn't accomplished most of these or even made in roads, seven years later. On that basis I say modernisation has failed.

 

[Hamster]

6 million people may be registered to pay income tax, but that doesn't mean 6 million people pay tax.



On the issue of modernisation (and not efiling) being a failure.



There are about 8 points which SARS wished to address in terms of modernisation, it hasn't accomplished most of these or even made in roads, seven years later. On that basis I say modernisation has failed.

I dunno about the rest, but when you called me on the 6% figure I googled it. In 2013 there were 15mil registered of which only 6mil pay tax (according to a moneyweb article).
Interesting how you called me on that figure which was lower than the real value without knowing the figure yourself. And now you are saying that even if 12% are registered less are probably paying - so we are going closer to the wrong 6% value.
You are right, as far as figures go we are done talking.

What SARS promised vs what they delivered I know nothing about.

 

[semaphore]

Lol. This is amusing to say the least.

 

[semaphore]

you have no clue what you are talking about. there is a huge glitch in this system and I can verify this for you. if the taxpayer is not on your profile you do NOT know what is going on yet the practitioners number can be so easily used fraudulently making it look like the practitioner submitted the returns for a particular tax payer.

FYI the modernization project is not JUST efiling. The monolithic beast behind all the processing is very intrict and very invovled. I like hamster also worked on this project for 3 1/2 years. You people are clueless. :erm:

 

[saturnz]

I dunno about the rest, but when you called me on the 6% figure I googled it. In 2013 there were 15mil registered of which only 6mil pay tax (according to a moneyweb article).
Interesting how you called me on that figure which was lower than the real value without knowing the figure yourself. And now you are saying that even if 12% are registered less are probably paying - so we are going closer to the wrong 6% value.
You are right, as far as figures go we are done talking.

What SARS promised vs what they delivered I know nothing about.

Just about everyone who buys things pays tax. You do not understand the difference between income tax and tax.

 

[Celine]

FYI the modernization project is not JUST efiling. The monolithic beast behind all the processing is very intrict and very invovled. I like hamster also worked on this project for 3 1/2 years. You people are clueless. :erm:

ok so you worked on the e-filing system - so can you tell me why you didn't work out a system in which the practitioner is protected? when you answer my question I will believe you.