Scientists Outraged By Block on Stem Cell Research

cloned embyo what's the difference, this is madness. embryos aren't people, they aren't sentient nor ever were, how much more absurdly abstract could one get. What's next, political policies based on tooth fairies? 'don't throw teeth away'''

gtfu!
 
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phenom said:
cloned embyo what's the difference, this is madness. embryos aren't people, they aren't sentient nor ever were, how much more absurdly abstract could one get. What's next, political policies based on tooth fairies? 'don't throw teeth away'''

gtfu!
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Not nonsense but quite true. Embryo is a new human, if you let it develop it's a brand new individual. Tooth fairies if left alone become human?

I don't follow your line of reasoning. Perhaps you need to read up on some basic primary school biology?
 
SlinkyMike said:
Indeed but it differs from embryonic stem cell research, hence the reason why this is called embryonic stem cell research and not adult or cord blood stem cell research... sheesh.
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I am curious. How does it differ? You seem to have such a deep understanding of this, you must be in the industry.
 
PeterCH said:
Not nonsense but quite true. Embryo is a new human, if you let it develop it's a brand new individual.
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At what point would you then classify it as an embryo? When the first cell division takes place? When a thousand cell divisions take place?
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
At what point would you then classify it as an embryo? When the first cell division takes place? When a thousand cell divisions take place?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo

It's a well known term. What are you asking? Google too difficult?

An embryo is the first cell containing the integrated DNA of the male and female gamete cells. The embryo is genetically a new individual, it is no longer a cell of the mother or of the father, but a new (distinct) individual which if left in the correct environment will become a fetus and then an infant, a child and one day an adult.
 
People are always asking, why Atheists care if someone is religious or not. This is exactly the reason I care.... Religion was needed way back in the olden days, but now it is outdated and outlived its usefulness.

Christians (other religions inc), it is now time to wake up from your fairytale world and join us grownups. I know it is a scary thought, that we are alone in this big bad world but get over it, man up. Because you guys are fcking up the world for the rest of us; with your wars and now this ****.....
 
Nicko said:
People are always asking, why Atheists care if someone is religious or not. This is exactly the reason I care.... Religion was needed way back in the olden days, but now it is outdated and outlived its usefulness.

Christians (other religions inc), it is now time to wake up from your fairytale world and join us grownups. I know it is a scary thought, that we are alone in this big bad world but get over it, man up. Because you guys are fcking up the world for the rest of us; with your wars and now this ****.....
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Which field of science are you in?
 
PeterCH said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo

It's a well known term. What are you asking? Google too difficult?

An embryo is the first cell containing the integrated DNA of the male and female gamete cells. The embryo is genetically a new individual, it is no longer a cell of the mother or of the father, but a new (distinct) individual which if left in the correct environment will become a fetus and then an infant, a child and one day an adult.
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From Wikipedia:
in its earliest stage of development, from the time of first cell division until birth, hatching, or germination.
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The first cell (actually a fertilised ovum) is called a zygote. Not an embryo.

Perhaps in the future be a little less pompous and insulting.
 
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PeterCH said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo

It's a well known term. What are you asking? Google too difficult?

An embryo is the first cell containing the integrated DNA of the male and female gamete cells. The embryo is genetically a new individual, it is no longer a cell of the mother or of the father, but a new (distinct) individual which if left in the correct environment will become a fetus and then an infant, a child and one day an adult.
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Do you have some reason to believe that a human embryo is human beyond it's potentiality? Sperm and egg cells are potentially human too; if they are allowed to fulfill their functions they will also become fetus' and then an infant...
Is there some objective reason why sperm and egg cells become sacrosanct once they become an embryo? Can they experience or reason?
 
PeterCH said:
Not nonsense but quite true. Embryo is a new human, if you let it develop it's a brand new individual. Tooth fairies if left alone become human?

I don't follow your line of reasoning. Perhaps you need to read up on some basic primary school biology?
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and skin cells cold be made into embryos too and then grow into a human. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080118092439.htm

It is not a human and won't be a human if we don't decide upon it to be, thus it should not matter, what is human is sentience, and if we plan for it not to never have sentience, then it won't be human.'

corpses/ permanently brain dead patients kept alive by machines are human too.
 
PeterCH said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo

It's a well known term. What are you asking? Google too difficult?

An embryo is the first cell containing the integrated DNA of the male and female gamete cells.
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That's called a zygote (from the very wiki article you linked to).

I was in fact asking for your understanding on what it is, and you've just demonstrated that you know sweet f-all.

It takes something special to fail the way you often do.
 
porchrat said:
From Wikipedia:


The first cell (actually a fertilised ovum) is called a zygote. Not an embryo.

Perhaps in the future be a little less pompous and insulting.
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Fair enough, however there is no difference between a zygote and embryo, the zygote has the EXACT SAME DNA as the following two cells. The division occurs by 'mitosis' (not meiosis) hence it gives two genetically identical cells (excluding any errors).

If you look at these definitions,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/embryo
you'll see that there is no strict cut off for zygote/embryo. They are genetically the same. Fertilised egg cell = zygote = divides once embryo (semantics but no difference at all structurally).
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
That's called a zygote (from the very wiki article you linked to).

I was in fact asking for your understanding on what it is, and you've just demonstrated that you know sweet f-all.

It takes something special to fail the way you often do.
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The term zygote means fertilised ovum. All subsequent divisions retain the integrity of the DNA. There is no difference between a single cell zygote and an embryo except the two cells.
 
phenom said:
and skin cells cold be made into embryos too and then grow into a human. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080118092439.htm

It is not a human and won't be a human if we don't decide upon it to be, thus it should not matter, what is human is sentience, and if we plan for it not to never have sentience, then it won't be human.'

corpses/ permanently brain dead patients kept alive by machines are human too.
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You really really really need to learn some biology, and read the articles you post. The clone cells did not grow from those few skins cells. They merely took the DNA out of the donor skins cells and implanted it into the clone cells (oversimplified but thats about correct).
 
phenom said:
and skin cells cold be made into embryos too and then grow into a human. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080118092439.htm
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No. Skin cells are differentiated cells. They cannot become a new individual without some sub cellular level modification. You can implant them in a favourable medium but they won't become a whole new individual without external intervention. The zygote / embryo will.

BTW the cells we shed are dead, they contain no nucleus (DNA), nucleous, RNA, mitochondia, Golgi bodies, spindles, etc. They are just collapsed keratin shells of the former cells which lose their nuclei and other organelles.


It is not a human and won't be a human if we don't decide upon it to be, thus it should not matter, what is human is sentience, and if we plan for it not to never have sentience, then it won't be human.'
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It is human because it contains human genetic code. It is also alive. It's not dead. The processes going inside it are active, vs the cells you may have shed and have dried out or were like skin cells - dead already.

corpses/ permanently brain dead patients kept alive by machines are human too
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Corpse is a dead human. Brain dead patients are still alive but if there is no hope of recovery, i.e. genuinely brain dead, life support can be switched off.
 
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