Scientists Outraged By Block on Stem Cell Research

[Nerfherder]

Peter so if I develop something living without a brain then that's cool with you ?

 

[PeterCH]

No I'm saying without the uterus lining (machinery) there will be no human. Therefore the embryo does not contain all the machinery required to develop into a human.

The DNA would be the part of your previous post dealing with "code". Notice I didn't comment on that.

But without oxygen in the atmosphere it won't happen either. So what's your point?

Again remove all the variables and just do a comparison.

A. Fertilised egg in a favourable uterus vs B. unfertilised egg in a favourable uterus.

Which one will may become pregnant? Assuming everything else is equal (both women have food, water, shelter, etc).
or rather, rephrase the question, which one WILL NOT BECOME PREGNANT IN THIS SCENARIO, NO MATTER WHAT?

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

What is the difference between the first mitotic division and subequent mitotic divisions?

No. Some here still fail to grasp the difference between a cell with new DNA and two cells with 'half DNAs' (gametes).

Did I say you did? I'm asking now. People here say religion interferes in science, so if you're a scientist, provide me with some examples in your work.

Don't try and weasel your way out of it. At no point did anyone here mention anything about gametes. Nor did porchrat mention anything about religion - changing your wording to "People here say" does not change the fact that your comment was directed towards him.

 

[PeterCH]

What's hilarious is that he won't let up or as would be totally more appropriate: run away and hide.
Aaaand Godwin!!! You're out buddy!! You just lost this debate and with such a magnificently ridiculous reaching argument that really this should be submitted to bash.org.

Explain why it seems ridiculous to you. I gave a historical examples of Nazis, but you can bring up slavery or even the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

 

[porchrat]

What is the difference between the first mitotic division and subequent mitotic divisions?

The number of cells dividing. What is the difference between unicellular and multicellular? There is a difference. We have words like "unicellular" and "multicellular" for a reason. BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Shall we just scrap all these definitions now because it means you can't say a zygote and an embryo are identical?...which they aren't.

No. Some here still fail to grasp the difference between a cell with new DNA and two cells with 'half DNAs' (gametes).

Still doesn't change your condescending attitude. Which is what I was commenting on. Shall we all just refer to you as "Oracle Peter" from now on and never sit in your presence? Would you prefer that or would you just like to eat some humble pie and come down to Earth with the rest of us?

Did I say you did? I'm asking now. People here say religion interferes in science, so if you're a scientist, provide me with some examples in your work.

Currently this isn't directly impeding my work at all as far as I can see.

Then again we have no idea what knowledge may be gained in the future from this research. So to say that this research couldn't potentially make my work more meaningful in the future or introduce new avenues that were previously not thought of is very presumptuous.

 

[porchrat]

This is epic - a chiropractor arguing biology with a biochemist.

Woah woah woah. He is a chiropractor?

I thought he was a real medical doctor.

 

[PeterCH]

Don't try and weasel your way out of it. At no point did anyone here mention anything about gametes. Nor did porchrat mention anything about religion - changing your wording to "People here say" does not change the fact that your comment was directed towards him.

Just because you can't grasp the meaning, it doesn't mean these are weasel words.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Explain why it seems ridiculous to you. I gave a historical examples of Nazis, but you can bring up slavery or even the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

Not seems... is. You are comparing a state of existence at the cellular level to an ethnicity and religious stance. IT IS RIDICULOUS!

The number of cells dividing. What is the difference between unicellular and multicellular? There is a difference. We have words like "unicellular" and "multicellular" for a reason. BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Shall we just scrap all these definitions now because it means you can't say a zygote and an embryo are identical?...which they aren't.

I have been trying to get this though to him but weasel is as weasel does. Anyway: he Godwinned... that means it's all over, right?

@PeterCH: Also, this transparent and pathetic cornering technique you are trying to employ (and which backfired spectacularly) by asking people which of them are scientists and of those, whose work is being oppressed is similarly RIDICLUOUS... we all stand to benefit from the findings of science whether you are a motor mechanic, a CEO, an artist or gangster, so just drop that nonsense - it is going nowhere.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Just because you can't grasp the meaning, it doesn't mean these are weasel words.

Again with the condescension, slow learner huh?

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Woah woah woah. He is a chiropractor?

I thought he was a real medical doctor.

"Doctor" - you know, those guys without a PhD who assign themselves the title just because they studied a bit of biology at technikon (and not very well judging by his knowledge).

 

[daveza]

Is the point here that embryos must be off limits because they have DNA ?

 

[PeterCH]

The number of cells dividing. What is the difference between unicellular and multicellular? There is a difference. We have words like "unicellular" and "multicellular" for a reason. BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Shall we just scrap all these definitions now because it means you can't say a zygote and an embryo are identical?...which they aren't.

There is no difference. The definitions are quite arbitrary here - between zygote and embryo. There is no difference. The significant difference lies between two gametes - ie. uncombined organisms and a combined organism.

Still doesn't change your condescending attitude. Which is what I was commenting on. Shall we all just refer to you as "Oracle Peter" from now on and never sit in your presence? Would you prefer that or would you just like to eat some humble pie and come down to Earth with the rest of us?

Dude, what makes you a judge of character here?

Currently this isn't directly impeding my work at all as far as I can see.

Then again we have no idea what knowledge may be gained in the future from this research. So to say that this research couldn't potentially make my work more meaningful in the future or introduce new avenues that were previously not thought of is very presumptuous.

Ok, so it doesn't effect your work and religious nuts don't disrupt your work at present. So as a scientist, this does not effect you.

 

[PeterCH]

Is the point here that embryos must be off limits because they have DNA ?

No.

The point is that the embryos are independent units - they're not skin grafts for example. They are not kidneys for example.

The fact which shows they are indenepent is their integrated maternal and paternal DNA. The embryo is different from the mother and father.

 

[PeterCH]

Again with the condescension, slow learner huh?

So 'weasel words' is not condescending? If you understood what I said, you would not say 'weasel words' - you would agree with me.

 

[PeterCH]

"Doctor" - you know, those guys without a PhD who assign themselves the title just because they studied a bit of biology at technikon (and not very well judging by his knowledge).

You know one can obtain a PhD in dishwashing?

 

[SlinkyMike]

Ok, so it doesn't effect your work and religious nuts don't disrupt your work at present. So as a scientist, this does not effect you.

As I said above -DROP THIS BS Peter. It affects all of us scientists and street sweepers alike. I told you this line was transparent but did you listen? Noooo.

 

[porchrat]

There is no difference. The definitions are quite arbitrary here - between zygote and embryo. There is no difference. The significant difference lies between two gametes - ie. uncombined organisms and a combined organism.

LOL ok dude you go and tell that to the entire world of biological sciences. Tell them that unicellular and multicellular don't really matter. Tell them they aren't real words and therefore we can just discard them.

Good luck with that.

Dude, what makes you a judge of character here?

Oh I am an exceptionally judgemental person. One of my many flaws. It isn't just me that is saying this though mate. A lot of people have commented on it in this thread alone. You have a very condescending way of dealing with people. This sort of self-assured smugness. It is very annoying.

Seriously dude. Come down to Earth with the rest of us. It is nice down here. We have cookies. I even have tea!

Ok, so it doesn't effect your work and religious nuts don't disrupt your work at present. So as a scientist, this does not effect you.

No I don't know if it affects my work because we don't know what knowledge could be gained from these scientific pursuits. As far as I can see at the moment it doesn't affect my research but discoveries in that field that could have occurred could have a big impact on the way my field operates in general. We just don't know and if there is no funding we may never know.

 

[SlinkyMike]

You know one can obtain a PhD in dishwashing?

Vacuous argument in which the rebutter attempts feigning ignorance of the context in order to obfuscate the point well made by his opponent.

You are not that good at this are you?

 

[porchrat]

You know one can obtain a PhD in dishwashing?

Which university offers a PhD in dishwashing?

Klingon maybe but dishwashing?

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

There is no difference. The definitions are quite arbitrary here - between zygote and embryo. There is no difference. The significant difference lies between two gametes - ie. uncombined organisms and a combined organism.

Fail again:

In biology, an organism is any contiguous living system (such as animal, plant, fungus, or micro-organism). In at least some form, all organisms are capable of response to stimuli, reproduction, growth and development, and maintenance of homoeostasis as a stable whole.