Search Warrant

Genius. said:
Thats the beauty of the police. They could always just say, they had reason to believe the car was stolen, they had reason to believe there was drugs in your car, they had reason to believe bla bla bla.

They can say anything, it wont be frowned upon, cos they are doing their job to try and make the roads/country safer.
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+ 1 000
 
Pitbull said:
Pls explain your logic to me if you please...

Does serial killers look any different to me and you ?
Do they need to pull over Black drivers only ?

How do you get to choose who looks suspicious and who doesn't ?

I say search ever gwd damn vehicle on the road !!!!!!
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I mean if for instance they get a report that someone was robbed by a guy driving a red Corolla and you come round the corner in your red Corolla. Or maybe they see some blood on the seat etc. I'm not sure how it would work in practice but other countries do have laws like that. This is the US definition:

The most well-known definition of probable cause is "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime".[1] Another common definition is "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".[2]

In the context of warrants, the Oxford Companion to American Law defines probable cause as "information sufficient to warrant a prudent person's belief that the wanted individual had committed a crime (for an arrest warrant) or that evidence of a crime or contraband would be found in a search (for a search warrant)". "Probable cause" is a stronger standard of evidence than a reasonable suspicion, but weaker than what is required to secure a criminal conviction. Even hearsay can supply probable cause if it is from a reliable source or supported by other evidence, according to the Aguilar-Spinelli test.
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If the SA law does require suspicion then its not very different I suppose.
 
TBH, you are just complaining because you can.

I would like to know that out of a thousand people who thinks searching a car by police in a road block is wrong...

The 5 or 10 that say they think it's wrong have something to hide. Period. I think you prob drive around with weed in the car or something. So don't do it then :)
 
Genius. said:
Thats the beauty of the police. They could always just say, they had reason to believe the car was stolen, they had reason to believe there was drugs in your car, they had reason to believe bla bla bla.

They can say anything, it wont be frowned upon, cos they are doing their job to try and make the roads/country safer.
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And that's the beauty of a free country. When the police start coming up with BS excuses to break the law (by searching without a bona fide reason) the public stops respecting them.

How exactly does a public with no respect for the law and law enforcement fit into your "brute force and oppression" world? Oh, sorry, I forgot, we live in that country.
 
Pitbull said:
TBH, you are just complaining because you can.

I would like to know that out of a thousand people who thinks searching a car by police in a road block is wrong...

The 5 or 10 that say they think it's wrong have something to hide. Period. I think you prob drive around with weed in the car or something. So don't do it then :)
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I just don't think the police should be given that much power. Although TBH I'm tempted to say that because of the crime in SA we need more extreme measures and that we can't have such civilised policies etc. I don't know where the balance is. Lol, if they actually wanted to search my car I'd just say yes because it'd be less hassle and I know I don't have anything dodgy in it, this is more theoretical.
 
Drunkard #1 said:
And that's the beauty of a free country. When the police start coming up with BS excuses to break the law (by searching without a bona fide reason) the public stops respecting them.

How exactly does a public with no respect for the law and law enforcement fit into your "brute force and oppression" world? Oh, sorry, I forgot, we live in that country.
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Do you think cops search cars cos they get a kick out of it? Or maybe they like the look of a car and want to search it to get a feel for the car?

''brute force and opression''? Lets adopt another approach to this topic.

If YOU were asked by a cop weather he can quickly search inside your car. What would YOU say?
 
My friend's a journalist and he has been to a few roadblocks. He says if you deny them the right to search your car and they do it anyway. In case they find something the case will be thrown out of court because the evidence was obtained illegaly.

It comes in where, say you have a misunderstanding with a officer off duty. He doesn't have the right to pull you over and search your car everyday just to get back at you.
 
Amida said:
My friend's a journalist and he has been to a few roadblocks. He says if you deny them the right to search your car and they do it anyway. In case they find something the case will be thrown out of court because the evidence was obtained illegaly.

It comes in where, say you have a misunderstanding with a officer off duty. He doesn't have the right to pull you over and search your car everyday just to get back at you.
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LoL

So you are saying that if i drive around with 50kg of Coke in my boot and get stopped by the cops and they ask me if they can search my car.

If i refuse, and they go ahead anyway, they find the 50kg of Coke in my boot. Its ok, cos it was obtained illegally?

Do you really think that i would get away with it? :D
 
Genius. said:
Do you think cops search cars cos they get a kick out of it? Or maybe they like the look of a car and want to search it to get a feel for the car?

''brute force and opression''? Lets adopt another approach to this topic.

If YOU were asked by a cop weather he can quickly search inside your car. What would YOU say?
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The law isn't in place to protect against reasonable searches by reasonable cops. It's there to protect the public from abuse by the police. If every member of the public was reasonable, we wouldn't need cops, and since the cops are sourced from the public, we can assume that they're not all reasonable all the time.

If a cop breaks the law (any law) the public will loose respect for the entire force, good luck trying to get that back.

And if they want to search my car, I'll tell them to "have fun", I've got nothing to hide.
 
Drunkard #1 said:
The law isn't in place to protect against reasonable searches by reasonable cops. It's there to protect the public from abuse by the police. If every member of the public was reasonable, we wouldn't need cops, and since the cops are sourced from the public, we can assume that they're not all reasonable all the time.

If a cop breaks the law (any law) the public will loose respect for the entire force, good luck trying to get that back.

And if they want to search my car, I'll tell them to "have fun", I've got nothing to hide.
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Have you been abused by the Police ?

Do you feel the big uncle spoke too load to you ? Do you think the big uncle is scary and can't sleep at night ?

LMAO ! Seriously dude. You're argument is weak :D
 
Pitbull said:
Have you been abused by the Police ?

Do you feel the big uncle spoke too load to you ? Do you think the big uncle is scary and can't sleep at night ?

LMAO ! Seriously dude. You're argument is weak :D
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:D

Why do people complain about everything? I think, especially South Africans -we complain about every darn thing.

The police are doing a good thing here, yet some people want to turn it around and say that they are abusing our rights. :rolleyes:
 
@ Drunkard - relax.

All we saying is, the cops dont need a warrent to search your car. All they need is resonable doubt. If push comes to shove, they can think of many ''reasons'' to allow them to search your ride.

You are making it out as if the police are there to abuse us every chance they get. If by searching random cars, it makes the roads and country safer, i say do it!!! I have no problem with it.
 
And all I'm saying is that the law has drawn a very clear line between reasonable doubt and unreasonable abuse. Any crossing of that line by the police is illegal, and will (as it has in the past), lead to further abuse. THE LAW IS THE LAW, and whoever breaks it, civilians or cops, needs to be held accountable. I've seen the police move through a "suspects" house (not mine), doing a "legal" search, breaking thinks because they felt like it, and then telling the victim of that search that "there's nothing she can do about it". Needless to say, they found nothing. Think about how that situation would make you feel if it was your house before you advocate more power to the cops. The law has declared that certain actions are not for the police to decide on. That was done for a reason, not to protect criminals, but to protect everyone from a (however small) percentage of cops who choose to abuse their power.
 
The issue here isnt about abuse of power. Clearly, you are taking it personal.

The issue here is simple.

Can the police search your car without a warrent?

YES!
 
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Drunkard #1 said:
And all I'm saying is that the law has drawn a very clear line between reasonable doubt and unreasonable abuse. Any crossing of that line by the police is illegal, and will (as it has in the past), lead to further abuse. THE LAW IS THE LAW, and whoever breaks it, civilians or cops, needs to be held accountable. I've seen the police move through a "suspects" house (not mine), doing a "legal" search, breaking thinks because they felt like it, and then telling the victim of that search that "there's nothing she can do about it". Needless to say, they found nothing. Think about how that situation would make you feel if it was your house before you advocate more power to the cops. The law has declared that certain actions are for the police to decide on. That was done for a reason, not to protect criminals, but to protect everyone from a (however small) percentage of cops who choose to abuse their power.
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So you saw one search and seizure and now all is bad :confused:

If they had a search warrant they are entitled to break anything and everything that is locked. Which you can claim back from the state to have it repaired. That is on the little note they give you once they leave assuming that the person was innocent and received such a note upon completion. Also the person in charge would have explained it to her before the search started and asked her to unlock anything that might be locked.

That being said.

A search of a vehicle is nothing like you are trying to make it out to be. They open the bonnet to get to the engine #, check under the seats and any secluded compartments in the car. They also take the spare wheel out and check the glove box and ashtray. That is hardly a search and seizure. And they are friendly doing so and very accomodating. My wife said to the policeman at the roadblock (I wasn't at the car at the time as I was at the van) that she has some woman things in the glove box. He said no problem he will get a female policeman to check it which he did apparently.

If you're a dick at these roadblocks be prepaired to be treated like a dick.

I had a very pleasant experience and I'm 100% for these roadblocks. This weekend in PTA was prob crime free I would like to know the stats for this weekend there. Seriously there was roadblocks all over the place.
 
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