Second-hand sweet spot?

[me_]

VVT, as in Toyota? Japanese then?

No, german - BMW

Yes, when one buys a second hand car, they should get the full service history, and print out of all claims against the motor plan to spot any underlying issues. There are many more factors when it comes to second hand buying. What you've witnessed in this thread, and quoted, is just the tip of the iceberg.

The car had minimal work done under motor plan. There were no signs of any underlying issues.

Dealers/manufacturers also do that to perpetuate the low mileage myth, and make people scared of cars over 100,000km. If all goes well - which is does, most of the time - there would be maybe R20,000 in maintenance on major parts - clutch, cam, waterpump, etc. - for the next 100,000km up till 200,000km.

Maybe in an old car, not with a new one. Engines have gotten a lot more complicated with additional components to improve consumption and get more performance from smaller engines.
I can't speak for budget cars, but with luxury cars, you can be guaranteed of a big ticket item between that period. Mercs pre 2000 were good for well over 200,000kms, but the ones that followed have started getting progressively earlier with expensive failures after 120,000.
A friend of mine had an Audi A3. Between 140,000 and 180,000 he spent approximately R50,000 on it.

When buying second hand, we do everything it takes to make sure we're not getting a lemon. If we don't get a lemon - which we won't, most of the time - it is 100% true that a car with 100,000km and just out of plan, is the safest bet.

Your example only makes us aware that lemons do exist. It is unfortunate that you got one.

Of course there is always some risk going second hand, minimal if you ask me, if the homework is done.

I wouldn't say it was a lemon. As I mentioned above, this is the norm, not the exception. Doing research on the variable valve timing system, the most common time for it to fail is 150,000kms - 180,000kms so I was right in the expected window / lifetime.

 

[PostmanPot]

I wouldn't say it was a lemon. As I mentioned above, this is the norm, not the exception. Doing research on the variable valve timing system, the most common time for it to fail is 150,000kms - 180,000kms so I was right in the expected window / lifetime.

Why didn't you sell then? Bit the bullet?

Also, why didn't you have a Motorite or SA Warranties aftermarket warranty if you were buying something you knew would give issues?

Not that it would have covered everything, but I'm sure it would have covered a good portion.

Most unfortunate.

The Audi Club Forum has been a wealth of info for me, one of the perks of VAG. More owners, more knowledge.

 

[Nerfherder]

Also take into consideration what kind of mileage. I would rather buy a 2012 with 80 000 kms on th clock if 70% of that was open road, than a 2012 with 40 000 kms that did it all in bumper to bumper traffic.

For me this is where the sweet spot is.

My car was a year old when I got it with 40 000 on the clock. I could see what the car was... its a fleet car that did lots of long trips. It looked like new.
Its the kind of car my father in law would have used and its the exact kind of driving he did.

You know the car has been run in, you know there are no out of the box issues and its much better than a car that has done the 40 000 over 5 years.

The price is also lower because of the mileage.

 

[me_]

Why didn't you sell then? Bit the bullet?

I did sell. Took the knock on traded-in instead of replacing the VVT units. The thing is I had just shelled out for a major service including timing chain. The mechanic thought the noise was the timing chain, not the VVT units. Once the timing chain was replaced, it became apparent that the noise wasn't that and that led us to the VVT units.

Also, why didn't you have a Motorite or SA Warranties aftermarket warranty if you were buying something you knew would give issues?

I didn't read the forums until I had the issue...

 

[nallayarg]

I notice nobody has mentioned Korean cars.
I've had a succession of Hyundai's which I bought at 2-5 years old.
None of them let me down and I intend to continue buying used cars with 60-100,000 km on the clock.
The smell of saved money is better than the "new car smell"

 

[FiestaST]

I notice nobody has mentioned Korean cars.
I've had a succession of Hyundai's which I bought at 2-5 years old.
None of them let me down and I intend to continue buying used cars with 60-100,000 km on the clock.
The smell of saved money is better than the "new car smell"

Fair point & slightly off topic but the value factor these days (2015) of the Hyundai (Sunday) & Kia models have gone to popo...may as well get a more "superior" brand.

Yes they look better, better build but noticeable increase of price~major deterioration of valid factor.

None of the levels (segments) that Kia & Hyundai play at class leading...

Case in point:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/703168-Hyundai-Veloster-Turbo-in-SA-at-a-price

 

[Rouxenator]

Mileage does not tell you anything about the condition of the car. My last car could have easily last to beyond 300,000km and I see some of them for sale with thay kind of mileage.

There are also those that start to go wrong from before 100,000km, some because of bad maintenance others just have dodgy parts. This applies to all cars.

Insist on full service history, let a machanic you trust check out the car before you commit to anything. A good community of owners are also valuable as pointed out. In my case I rely on Vuaxhall forums in the UK, many have parts for sale on eBay at reasonable prices.

 

[PostmanPot]

I did sell. Took the knock on traded-in instead of replacing the VVT units. The thing is I had just shelled out for a major service including timing chain. The mechanic thought the noise was the timing chain, not the VVT units. Once the timing chain was replaced, it became apparent that the noise wasn't that and that led us to the VVT units.

Ouch. You mentioned you had it until 150,000km IIRC, so would've thought you'd have sold before then.

I didn't read the forums until I had the issue...

You have to admit that the peace of mind it offers makes buying second hand, above 100,000km, etc., a lot easier.

Using your logic, third party out of plan car warranty companies would not be in business if they thought second hand/over 100,000km, etc. cars were unreliable and high maintenance...

I'm not convinced, but I respect your opinion. I can't help but feel it's a bit of a case of sour grapes, though.

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

The service book will give you that information. Read the pages after your last service

That's the thing, got my car from auction,

Didn't get the book, or manual, so just guessing as it is.....

But what's a general guideline?

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

I notice nobody has mentioned Korean cars.
I've had a succession of Hyundai's which I bought at 2-5 years old.
None of them let me down and I intend to continue buying used cars with 60-100,000 km on the clock.
The smell of saved money is better than the "new car smell"

Did mention my kia earlier......

Did ask on my picanto that's sitting at 103000 km what's the best time to sell it;

 

[igi]

+1

+2

 

[Nokkie]

Personally the big trick is teaching each car you consider on it's individual merits and taking a look forward by 2-3 services.

One brand will see you needing to change the cambelt at 90 000km and the next at 180 000km while yet another will use a cam chain instead.

Also buying a car that has it's cambelt service due at the very next service can be a very good deal, because that person is fearing the worst taking it to a dealership and is therefore selling it to negate that cost...something which is often quite silly...because now they spend 10x more to buy another car instead.

Another big ticket item to consider is the conditions of the discs and pads and when they will need to be replaced. Again this puts you either in a bargaining position or will make you walk away depending on what else is already on the list.

Something people also forget is the whole annual vs mileage thing when it comes to servicing. People will buy a car that is 12500km away from the next service...yet it's actually due the month after because it hasn't been serviced in 10 months etc.

For me the sweet spot is it's actual age, not so much it's mileage. When a car is in that 3-5 year gap is when it's still virtually new but the owner is approaching the end of their loan term or has just paid it off and is now itching to get something else.

3-5 year old car with a <100 000km on the clock is a much better deal to me than a brand new car in pretty much every case.

Case in point I bought my Golf 5 GTI at the 3-4 year mark with 95 000km on the clock for the same money that a brand new Polo would have cost me at the time. So I got a much bigger car with a whole lot more features for the same money.

Today my GTI is now 6-7 years old and still worth more than that brand new 2012 Polo which got knocked with depreciation and also won't sell nearly as easily.

Do you know why some people sell there cars at 2000kms?

 

[PostmanPot]

Do you know why some people sell there cars at 2000kms?

Sorry, what?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Do you know why some people sell there cars at 2000kms?

People don't do that.

Dealerships do.

 

[Rouxenator]

Correct, those are demos

 

[Nokkie]

So a dealership sells a Ferrari on 2000km?

 

[SauRoNZA]

So a dealership sells a Ferrari on 2000km?

Firstly a Ferrari is a whole different conversation with a whole different set of variables not remotely relevant to this conversation.

Secondly. Yes, dealerships call it a demo.

 

[Nokkie]

Firstly a Ferrari is a whole different conversation with a whole different set of variables not remotely relevant to this conversation.

Secondly. Yes, dealerships call it a demo.

Interesting, I often wonder why do they sell lambo's and such at that type of kms...

 

[SauRoNZA]

If you are simply going to ask the same question over and over again and changing the car why bother?

Supercars see very little mileage in their life due to the extreme cost involved.

Most do 30000km and are considered "old" and their values drop accordingly.

So 2000km is like 20000 on a normal car.

Now do you actually have a real question?