Self Defense - suggestions please

[Nerfherder]

They can after getting hit with a few high velocity rubber ball rounds.



You clearly have issues reading. Go back through my posts. Read them slowly. Read them out aloud. Make notes. Then come back and respond.

A real gun is better, but if you can't or don't want to handle it a paintball gun is better than being unarmed.

Disclaimer: I'm a gun owner, and have spent many hours chatting to others (in and out of gun stores) about this.

I'm going to go do work now... you are doing a much better job at this than me.

 

[Progenix Oj101]

Yes. Early warning tells you to go get your gun/weapon. You don't want to actually have to defend yourself, this guy doesn't want a confrontation either, he wants your stuff. If he gets over the wall and the alarm goes off he is going to run, unless he is dead set on killing and raping you.
Chances are he breaks in to peoples houses every night. He doesn't need to take a chance finding out what kind of defence setup you have inside. He wants to get in, take your stuff and get out.
Alarm makes them run 90% of the time unless they already have access to the house.
If the guy is lurking in your garden and you shoot him in the face with a peper ball, the guy is going to run. You surprised him and he gets a mega fright. He is going to run, its his best option. Why must he just start shooting in the dark and wait for the next attack ?

Robbers OP is get in, get out.


Again, this is not a hijack scenario. We have already said, unless you see the guys coming from a mile away your best thing is to comply.

We're arguing the same point Maybe one/both of us worded things poorly, but I fully agree with you.

 

[Nerfherder]

A nice stream of pepper can be effective.

Nothing is 100% reliable, so why fek around with toys and things. Get the best.

Personal preference... I like the no kill option. Also I make poor decisions in bad situations, a gun would get me in trouble.

 

[Progenix Oj101]

Personal preference... I like the no kill option. Also I make poor decisions in bad situations, a gun would get me in trouble.

Everybody does, but bringing a toy to a gunfight is asking for problems. You have to judge the situation, if complying will get you out alive then by all means. However, if there's any doubt it's best to be safe than dead.

 

[Nerfherder]

We're arguing the same point Maybe one/both of us worded things poorly, but I fully agree with you.

Ya, ok.

Compliance saved my life more than once.

Having a weapon almost got me arrested twice.

I just want to hurt the next chop that comes over my wall though

 

[Progenix Oj101]

Ya, ok.

Compliance saved my life more than once.

Having a weapon almost got me arrested twice.

I just want to hurt the next chop that comes over my wall though

Believe me, I get that. I stated compliance is a good option back on page 1. However having a backup plan should compliance not work could be what saves your life.

As for the bit about being arrested because of a weapon, no comment

 

[TehStranger]

It may be incredibly difficult, but it's not impossible. Would you chance someone firing in your direction three times with live ammo? I sure as hell wouldn't, the risk is too high. Carrying a toy gun is also making yourself a softer target than that 6'5" marine with guns hanging from every limb - don't you want to make yourself the hardest target possible?

I'd probably chance that more than giving in to someone with a gun when I could potentially have avoided the scenario.

I love how you assume all of these guys have guns. Our local CPF regularly detains house breakers, and the cases where they're armed are less than 10%. Of those that were armed, I've yet to hear about a case where the perps started firing off rounds.

Going with what you say of just wanting to get valuables and hightail it out of there, why introduce the possibility of them getting violent by shooting a toy gun at them? Let them take what they want and claim from insurance. Sure, there's the chance they might get violent anyway, which is why I'm adamant you should fight fire with fire, but a toy gun is likely to escalate the situation to a level you want to avoid at all costs.

I still think you're showing huge amounts of ignorance with your "toy gun" comments, but have it your way. Also if they're only there to take the TV and leave, then perhaps you just leave them. If they try to attack you and you shoot back defending yourself (note the thread title) then it's a different story.

This comes back to my point of reacting correctly to the situation instead of applying your black and white view to things.

I hear you, you have a kid in the house. Your firearm is to be locked in a safe where young ones can't get it. All of your decent gun safes will auto lock after a few seconds, so you don't even have to worry about forgetting to lock it. Just avoid those cheap R 1,000 jobbies that can be bumped, they're quite easy to spot because of the low price and they normally sport a keypad with 1 through 0 and A and B to the sides of zero. A hard smack to the top while simultaneously turning the knob opens them, you want something that takes skill and time to get into. If a firearm is increasing risk in your house, you're not looking after it properly.

I don't see how this addresses or relates to anything I've said, could you clarify?

I agree that ending someone's life is VERY different than to shooting at the range, but if I have to choose between your family and the perp...

Like much in life, this is a choice that seems incredibly easy and obvious. And yes, you can harp on about the "oh the humanity, think about the children and the family" with your argumentum ad passiones (Paul would be so proud), but once again they don't always come into the picture. This translates back to my point of assessing the situation and reacting to it in the best way, rather than taking a black and white approach. You seem to love absolutes, but you're forgetting that there are so many variables in a self defence situation, and because of this there are more than just two answers.

I'm going to go do work now... you are doing a much better job at this than me.

I might just follow you. Arguing with ojo is alright, but when AntiGanda steps in you know the thread will go downhill quite rapidly.

 

[Progenix Oj101]

I'd probably chance that more than giving in to someone with a gun when I could potentially have avoided the scenario.

I love how you assume all of these guys have guns. Our local CPF regularly detains house breakers, and the cases where they're armed are less than 10%. Of those that were armed, I've yet to hear about a case where the perps started firing off rounds.

If your life isn't at risk I'm promoting compliance over starting a gun fight, I said that a while back on page 1. My point is that if you're taking on someone who IS armed, shooting a toy or pepper spray at them isn't a wise idea.

I still think you're showing huge amounts of ignorance with your "toy gun" comments, but have it your way. Also if they're only there to take the TV and leave, then perhaps you just leave them. If they try to attack you and you shoot back defending yourself (note the thread title) then it's a different story.

This comes back to my point of reacting correctly to the situation instead of applying your black and white view to things.

I'm getting the idea it's me who's not making myself clear, cause just like with Nerfherder you and I are saying the same thing.

I don't see how this addresses or relates to anything I've said, could you clarify?

Sure, you say it's a large commitment, but the only real commitment is keeping your gun locked away and out of the hands of others. I don't know any firearm owner who doesn't enjoy a morning at the range (I guess there might be some?), so practice is more of a hobby and less of a commitment.

Like much in life, this is a choice that seems incredibly easy and obvious. And yes, you can harp on about the "oh the humanity, think about the children and the family" with your argumentum ad passiones (Paul would be so proud), but once again they don't always come into the picture. This translates back to my point of assessing the situation and reacting to it in the best way, rather than taking a black and white approach. You seem to love absolutes, but you're forgetting that there are so many variables in a self defence situation, and because of this there are more than just two answers.

Once your life is at stake it is very black and white. If they show any intent to bring harm to you or your loved ones, it's lethal force or possibly die/have to live knowing you didn't do enough to save your family. I think we can all agree it'll be easier to live with having taking the life of someone who had bad intentions for your and your family than to live with knowing your wife and kids have been killed due to your inaction/incorrect action.

I might just follow you. Arguing with ojo is alright, but when AntiGanda steps in you know the thread will go downhill quite rapidly.

Can I take that as a compliment?

Heh - you called me by my old name here. It only just registered.

 

[AntiGanda]

They can after getting hit with a few high velocity rubber ball rounds.



You clearly have issues reading. Go back through my posts. Read them slowly. Read them out aloud. Make notes. Then come back and respond.

A real gun is better, but if you can't or don't want to handle it a paintball gun is better than being unarmed.

Disclaimer: I'm a gun owner, and have spent many hours chatting to others (in and out of gun stores) about this.

Explain to us what a "high velocity" paintball round is please.

I would also like to know which gun store would recommend such a gun. Your local toy store perhaps?

 

[AntiGanda]

Ya, ok.

Compliance saved my life more than once.

Having a weapon almost got me arrested twice.

I just want to hurt the next chop that comes over my wall though

Well you shouldn't have walls anyway. They are not recommended.

Compliance is a gamble, and we don't do that with lives.

There is an old saying. ...

 

[AntiGanda]

I love how you assume all of these guys have guns. Our local CPF regularly detains house breakers, and the cases where they're armed are less than 10%. Of those that were armed, I've yet to hear about a case where the perps started firing off rounds.

Let's discuss this scenario.

Firstly CPF's are not officially armed -- that is not allowed --.

Secondly, what if the suspects are armed (even with a knife)? Does the CPF carry paintball?

So the stories are likely untrue and the CPF just observes and reports to SAPS.

Bad guys fire off rounds so many times it isn't even funny. And those are just the ones we hear about. You mention 10%, so let's have the source of those stats - or are you really going to gamble a life that 90% on them not having a weapon?

 

[FNfal]

I have 4 things i use .
alarm beams
CCTV(8 cams) to check if the alarm goes off .
Paint ball if it is just a burglar and i can surprise him i will also carry a firearm .
Then i have a few firearms one of which is a shotgun .

Beams or passives and then CCTV and paint ball behind decent barriers if you do not want to get firearms .

 

[AntiGanda]

I have 4 things i use .
alarm beams
CCTV(8 cams) to check if the alarm goes off .
Paint ball if it is just a burglar and i can surprise him i will also carry a firearm .
Then i have a few firearms one of which is a shotgun .

Beams or passives and then CCTV and paint ball behind decent barriers if you do not want to get firearms .

Where are the firearms? (scenario) I have just broken into your home.

 

[Kalle]

GLOCK

+1

I have a Glock 18 and if in doubt I load the 32 round mags from the full auto version

 

[Kalle]

These are not "freak" occurrences. Even bullets take time to act. A guy shot in the leg can run 600m (seen it happen) - no blood either.

Wrong ammo; I have a friend who got shot by burglars 13 times with FMJ ammo and he is still living to tell the tale, because they didn't hit anything vital.

But if you use hollow points no one is running anymore; and yes hollow points are outlawed by the Geneva convention for military and law enforcement but they are perfectly legal in SA for self defense.

 

[AntiGanda]

+1

I have a Glock 18 and if in doubt I load the 32 round mags from the full auto version

The Airsoft version no doubt.

 

[AntiGanda]

Wrong ammo; I have a friend who got shot by burglars 13 times with FMJ ammo and he is still living to tell the tale, because they didn't hit anything vital.

But if you use hollow points no one is running anymore; and yes hollow points are outlawed by the Geneva convention for military and law enforcement but they are perfectly legal in SA for self defense.

On this occasion it was hollow point.

It's quite rare for any private person nowadays to use FMJ - the police & army do.

 

[Kalle]

The Airsoft version no doubt.

Whats airsoft?
Its the normal glock and most of it is plastic except the slide

 

[AntiGanda]

Whats airsoft?
Its the normal glock and most of it is plastic except the slide

Post a picture of your Glock 18 please next to some paper with the words MyBB next to it.

 

[Kalle]

On this occasion it was hollow point.

It's quite rare for any private person nowadays to use FMJ - the police & army do.

very strange. I had to shoot once an intruder who came at me with a panga in our garden.
One shot and he was down instantly and he just survived it. The don't call them man stoppers without a reason.