Senior PHP Developer

Ryan Innes

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
584
CLOSED OFF

Role: PHP Developer
Experience: Senior
Salary Bracket: R55k - R65k pm Neg
Location: Cape Town
Required Skills:
PHP development experience working with OOP
Working knowledge of Laravel
Working experience of MVC design pattern
Working knowledge of MySQL or MariaDB (including transactions and atomicity)
A working understanding of Linux.
Any experience with eCommerce systems.
Some front-end design experience (not essential).
Grade 12 certificate and relevant certifications from an accredited institution
Having a degree in computer science, engineering or related area it will be advantageous.

Contact Details: ryan@pureplacements.co.za mobile: +27834439745
 
Last edited:

retromodcoza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
332
I'm just curious. I'd love to know how this goes from your perspective.

When you put an ad out as above , do you :

Get no people applying?
Get lots of people , but none are remotely suitable?
Get lots of people , and they go through the process but are found wanting?
Get lots of people , but they reach the offer stage and negotiations break down for whatever reason?

I did PHP full time about 10 years back and now do a smattering for maintenance. Its also being seen more and more as a career dead end. That being said , lots of devs who do other languages might be suitable for PHP.

A while back , I wrote this :

I wonder if your situation would benefit from such an approach.
 

Ryan Innes

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
584
I'm just curious. I'd love to know how this goes from your perspective.

When you put an ad out as above , do you :

Get no people applying?
Get lots of people , but none are remotely suitable?
Get lots of people , and they go through the process but are found wanting?
Get lots of people , but they reach the offer stage and negotiations break down for whatever reason?

I did PHP full time about 10 years back and now do a smattering for maintenance. Its also being seen more and more as a career dead end. That being said , lots of devs who do other languages might be suitable for PHP.

A while back , I wrote this :

I wonder if your situation would benefit from such an approach.
Hi @retromodcoza

Thanks for the questions/comments,

I've had a couple of applications (not via MBB unfortunately) all have been lacking with regards to experience required by our client, to be honest we haven't put them forward as they either claim to have the experience required but when you dig deeper - their work experience has been limited to short contracts with large gaps between employment. They don't have certain skills required by the client or are just taking a chance.

If this were an entry level or internship post I would have greater leeway, the client is in the process of rebuilding their entire backend and doesn't have the room for interns currently. Once the rebuild is complete, tested and pushed live the situation should change.

I'll definitely give the your article a read.

Appreciate all feedback and advice received.

Ryan
 

cguy

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
6,014
Perhaps the issue is the degree requirement? While I am sure that a degree helps, it’s probably narrowing the pool on PHP developers significantly.
 

Ryan Innes

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
584
Perhaps the issue is the degree requirement? While I am sure that a degree helps, it’s probably narrowing the pool on PHP developers significantly.
Morning, the degree is a plus not a necessity :)
 

Ryan Innes

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
584
Ok serious question time, again re CTC for this role... Serious constructive feedback please as the salary scales aren't necessarily on point.

Your thoughts on where the CTC should be for this role and secondly are you as Senior Devs reluctant to explore new roles currently.

TIA
 

r4nd0m

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
379
are you as Senior Devs reluctant to explore new roles currently
Personally speaking, with COVID doing the rounds and retrenchments happening / businesses closing down, I feel the environment for job hunting isn't ideal.

I look at it as a LIFO type deal, where if I join a new company I'd be the new guy and possibly the first to go if retrenchments come. I'd have to hedge that somehow.

I'm sitting pretty happy where I am right now because of seniority at my company, good pay and relaxed work environment.

Things that will make me move:
  • Massive pay jump (less likely for upper end dev's and in current environment)
  • Flexibility of work arrangements (time and place)
  • Chill team and environment
Just my 2c.
 

Ryan Innes

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
584
Personally speaking, with COVID doing the rounds and retrenchments happening / businesses closing down, I feel the environment for job hunting isn't ideal.

I look at it as a LIFO type deal, where if I join a new company I'd be the new guy and possibly the first to go if retrenchments come. I'd have to hedge that somehow.

I'm sitting pretty happy where I am right now because of seniority at my company, good pay and relaxed work environment.

Things that will make me move:
  • Massive pay jump (less likely for upper end dev's and in current environment)
  • Flexibility of work arrangements (time and place)
  • Chill team and environment
Just my 2c.
Thank you, appreciate your 2c :)
 

retromodcoza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
332
R65-R85k depending on certain factors is what I would aim for.

It depends on what senior means in this organisation. What number of years of experience are you looking for? Any required cross skills? Management experience? Your ad doesn't say.

Unemployment among software developers is approx 2% in SA. (And this is mostly cyclical). It hasn't changed much because of COVID. That means you don't have much market power to play with.

I see a lot of requirements in the job ad , but I don't see any WIIFM content.

I always say it like this :

"How would you approach hiring a famous rock band to play at your birthday party?"

Would you:
Put an ad in the paper to attract them?
Make them play test pieces to see if they're good?
Make them attend multiple interviews?
Call them back when convenient for you?
Low ball them on pay and expect them to take it?

Now developers are not rockstars , as much as they like to think that they are. But they're also not cleaners (the opposite end of the power spectrum). The companies you work with have to approach them more like rockstars than like cleaners. Because right now they're acting as if they're cleaners.
 

Ryan Innes

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
584
R65-R85k depending on certain factors is what I would aim for.

It depends on what senior means in this organisation. What number of years of experience are you looking for? Any required cross skills? Management experience? Your ad doesn't say.

Unemployment among software developers is approx 2% in SA. (And this is mostly cyclical). It hasn't changed much because of COVID. That means you don't have much market power to play with.

I see a lot of requirements in the job ad , but I don't see any WIIFM content.

I always say it like this :

"How would you approach hiring a famous rock band to play at your birthday party?"

Would you:
Put an ad in the paper to attract them?
Make them play test pieces to see if they're good?
Make them attend multiple interviews?
Call them back when convenient for you?
Low ball them on pay and expect them to take it?

Now developers are not rockstars , as much as they like to think that they are. But they're also not cleaners (the opposite end of the power spectrum). The companies you work with have to approach them more like rockstars than like cleaners. Because right now they're acting as if they're cleaners.
Thank you for your reply and insight, I must say it's a fine line we're treading when it comes to attracting talent, what used to be rockstar perks/attractions have become the norm, the WFH, paid lunches, all you can eat snacks, top tech stacks, ability to walk 800m to go surf or for a trail run, 20/25 days paid leave and paid skills development etc... don't seem to cut it anymore. Maybe I'm wrong?

I would honestly like to know what it takes now to say hey.... here's a role which I think you may be interested in, these are the requirements and here's what the client is offering CTC plus (insert perks here).

When it comes to listing years to experience, what the client may see as Senior (5+ years in this case) might not be the case in the communities eyes, if we list all the skills required on the brief we get hammered for just copy and pasting. I've resorted to keeping the ad as brief as possible, listing key criteria and rather sharing the full spec if someone is interested.

Lastly yes the middle to top end of the Dev community is very tight with not much room to move when looking for someone, I don't like phoning and harassing people or spamming via LinkedIn or email. I'd rather grow my network passively and if a role that I share interests you hopefully there will be a quick DM from the interested Dev to get the ball rolling.

Thank you again to the community for sharing insight from the other side of the table, I do appreciate it.
 

Johnatan56

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
27,400
Thank you for your reply and insight, I must say it's a fine line we're treading when it comes to attracting talent, what used to be rockstar perks/attractions have become the norm,

  1. the WFH,
  2. paid lunches,
  3. all you can eat snacks,
  4. top tech stacks,
  5. ability to walk 800m to go surf or for a trail run,
  6. 20/25 days paid leave and paid skills development
1. But that throws point 5 out? Should be a given as well that a dev can work 2/3 days from home, and during COVID it's a must.
2. How often do these lunches happen, and why can't I get the increased salary instead? Do these lunches require that I stick with my team, so I'll be chatting about work during lunch, but that's now a company benefit.
3. That is generally a given, but again, that's not really needed if there's snack stuff around, giving one an extra R500 a month is probably better.
4. PHP is not a top tech stack
5. I'm stuck at work, when am I going to go surf or go for a trail run?
6. For a senior, 20-25 days paid leave I'd consider a minimum, around 18 days is a minimum starting for a junior if your company isn't very nice, 21 days is a min for intermediate, 24 days min for a senior (based on 3 days per rank as 1 day per year of work, with +3 years based on specialized skills). You can make up for this with a higher salary as people will then take unpaid leave. Burn out in software is a very common thing.

I would honestly like to know what it takes now to say hey.... here's a role which I think you may be interested in, these are the requirements and here's what the client is offering CTC plus (insert perks here).

When it comes to listing years to experience, what the client may see as Senior (5+ years in this case) might not be the case in the communities eyes, if we list all the skills required on the brief we get hammered for just copy and pasting. I've resorted to keeping the ad as brief as possible, listing key criteria and rather sharing the full spec if someone is interested.

Lastly yes the middle to top end of the Dev community is very tight with not much room to move when looking for someone, I don't like phoning and harassing people or spamming via LinkedIn or email. I'd rather grow my network passively and if a role that I share interests you hopefully there will be a quick DM from the interested Dev to get the ball rolling.

Thank you again to the community for sharing insight from the other side of the table, I do appreciate it.
MyBB has also got a pretty bad rep for dev jobs since they allow some horrendous job postings on this forum, namely ChantalMichelle, who got an entire thread about how crap the postings were, so you won't really find any senior devs really checking for job listings here, rather you'll come across people already employed who need the motivation to move.
 

Ryan Innes

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
584
1. But that throws point 5 out? Should be a given as well that a dev can work 2/3 days from home, and during COVID it's a must.
2. How often do these lunches happen, and why can't I get the increased salary instead? Do these lunches require that I stick with my team, so I'll be chatting about work during lunch, but that's now a company benefit.
3. That is generally a given, but again, that's not really needed if there's snack stuff around, giving one an extra R500 a month is probably better.
4. PHP is not a top tech stack
5. I'm stuck at work, when am I going to go surf or go for a trail run?
6. For a senior, 20-25 days paid leave I'd consider a minimum, around 18 days is a minimum starting for a junior if your company isn't very nice, 21 days is a min for intermediate, 24 days min for a senior (based on 3 days per rank as 1 day per year of work, with +3 years based on specialized skills). You can make up for this with a higher salary as people will then take unpaid leave. Burn out in software is a very common thing.


MyBB has also got a pretty bad rep for dev jobs since they allow some horrendous job postings on this forum, namely ChantalMichelle, who got an entire thread about how crap the postings were, so you won't really find any senior devs really checking for job listings here, rather you'll come across people already employed who need the motivation to move.
1. Agree - Covid has made this a must rather than a perk, I'm referring to pre Wuhan cat knocking the Covid test tube over and laughing... Do cats laugh???
2. Varies from company to company, bigger companies have canteens where you can order lunch and either sit there or go outside I presume. If we were to sit with our team mates for 8 hours a day 5 days a week we might need to add a shovel and a bag of lime as a perk :) Only in some cases though...
3. Again varies from company to company.
4. Noted.
5. Before, lunch (with your food acquired from the canteen) or after work, easy access.
6.. Noted and burn out is definitely areal thing and concern.

Thank you for the job posting advice/feedback, I'll see if the ChantalMichelle thread is still around, will take notes.

Once again thank you!
 

Johnatan56

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
27,400
1. Agree - Covid has made this a must rather than a perk, I'm referring to pre Wuhan cat knocking the Covid test tube over and laughing... Do cats laugh???
2. Varies from company to company, bigger companies have canteens where you can order lunch and either sit there or go outside I presume. If we were to sit with our team mates for 8 hours a day 5 days a week we might need to add a shovel and a bag of lime as a perk :) Only in some cases though...
3. Again varies from company to company.
4. Noted.
5. Before, lunch (with your food acquired from the canteen) or after work, easy access.
6.. Noted and burn out is definitely areal thing and concern.

Thank you for the job posting advice/feedback, I'll see if the ChantalMichelle thread is still around, will take notes.

Once again thank you!
Note your job postings aren't that bad in terms of format and stuff, it's literally just a case of most good seniors at that salary bracket have a job and it's not enough to move, but that's more on the companies you're advertising.
 

Ancalagon

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
17,014
I've never worked in South Africa for less than 21 days of leave and I never will. Even as a relatively junior developer with 3 years of experience, I had 21 days of leave. Last company I worked at offered me 18, I negotiated 21.

I personally wouldn't get too hung up on free lunches. I think decent coffee and a clean working environment with good equipment (desks, chairs, computers) are more important. Get the basics right before you start thinking about free lunches in other words.

Obviously this has a little less relevance now due to COVID.

Also, your client wants senior PHP skills but doesn't want to pay senior money. This is made even worse by the fact that PHP is on its way out, which means that only senior (and expensive) people will have decent PHP knowledge, or dabblers. Your client doesn't want dabblers, which leaves the expensive people which they don't want to hire.

I'd suggest to your client that they hire a promising junior and teach them PHP rather than pay for a senior. When I was hired in my current role, I didn't know the language or technology environment that they used. I've still done pretty well.
 

abzo

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
30,291
Lol love the way the devs are artificially inflating the salaries. Expect some guy from Boston College to show up with 5 years experience demanding R65k pm
 
Top