Seremane to lead DA

[Bageloo]

Come on Bag.

How many white personnel in the civil service?

70 Colonels "requested" to leave the army. All white with 30-40 years experience each. To be replaced by previous disadvantaged with 12 years AA training.

Not 12 years ago. October 2006.

Skills shortage?

Who is talking what specialities now?

Eh, I was responding to a false statement regarding white teachers only severence packages. I don't see why you have to bring the colonels into it. It's a different matter, colonels are not teachers.

But anyway, in the case of the colonels there must have been an abundance of skills otherwise they wouldn't have let them go. Perhaps I might believe you if you can show that their retrenchment has led to skill shortages. Don't generalise be specific.

 

[marine1]

Colonels are not teachers? When were you in any armed service?

 

[Bageloo]

So if you have a black teacher with a 5 year experience package and a white one with 10 years package ($$$), which one is more likely to volunteer for ethnic cleansing. You see it now??

You assume that there are no black teachers with more than 20 years experience. Well at the time of the those severence packages a lot of black principals and lecturers at the colleges of education took those packages. It was a cost saving exercise that had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. it made sense to get rid of the people that were almost retiring and replace them with freshly trained teachers. At that time also the department had just merged from all the former departments. It was the beginning of the outcomes based education curriculum and those older teachers would have had to be retrained on then new curriculum, so it made a lot of financial sence to lay them off. Besides the packages were voluntary.

 

[Bageloo]

Colonels are not teachers? When were you in any armed service?

once again let me rephrase that for you. Colonels are not school teachers. Are you happy now?

 

[Skeptik]

You assume that there are no black teachers with more than 20 years experience. Well at the time of the those severence packages a lot of black principals and lecturers at the colleges of education took those packages. It was a cost saving exercise that had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. it made sense to get rid of the people that were almost retiring and replace them with freshly trained teachers. At that time also the department had just merged from all the former departments. It was the beginning of the outcomes based education curriculum and those older teachers would have had to be retrained on then new curriculum, so it made a lot of financial sence to lay them off. Besides the packages were voluntary.

I assumed no such thing.

I'm getting the impression that you have difficulty following a conventional debate. Please pay attention. It isn't my duty to babytalk to you, but I'll try.

There are many more experienced white teachers. That is hopefully not in dispute. Therefore, accepting this assumption, it means a wealth of experienced teachers were retrenched, and they happen to be white. Don't come with this "well it was voluntary" claptrap. If I offer you money to retire early, surely you would likely accept. What is the alternative, assuming there is one?? Get fired, suspended or even transfered to Kyalitcha without your consent (as happened to the white council workers).

Now Pandor is screaming that there is a shortage of teachers and we will have to get Zimbabweans or people from INDIA of all places! Surely these people could have been retained as advisors, commitee members ... something that helped the new generation. But no, they were white, so they had to go. That is the story, however much you try and dress it up.

 

[marine1]

once again let me rephrase that for you. Colonels are not school teachers. Are you happy now?

yes

 

[Bageloo]

I assumed no such thing.

There are many more experienced white teachers. That is hopefully not in dispute. Therefore, accepting this assumption, it means a wealth of experienced teachers were retrenched, and they happen to be white. Don't come with this "well it was voluntary" claptrap. If I offer you money to retire early, surely you would likely accept. What is the alternative, assuming there is one?? Get fired, suspended or even transfered to Kyalitcha without your consent (as happened to the white council workers).

First of all please explain how you have come to the assupmtion that there are many more experienced white teachers Dude, you sound like you've never even left your suburb let alone Cape Town

At my school (a township school), we had teachers imported from Ghana. This was during apartheid in the 80's. There was a shortage of maths and science teachers even then. The shortage of maths and science teachers is not something new. Like you said before a lot of those white teachers had a choice of accepting redeployment to township schools where they were most needed . A lot of them chose the retirement option.

As you can see they were costing the department a lot in salaries and yet they could not be used where they were needed.

Now Pandor is screaming that there is a shortage of teachers and we will have to get Zimbabweans or people from INDIA of all places! Surely these people could have been retained as advisors, commitee members ... something that helped the new generation. But no, they were white, so they had to go. That is the story, however much you try and dress it up.

They were not prepared to be redeployed. They were clearly surplus to requirements in their own schools and could not get themselves to teach at lowly township schools.

 

[Bageloo]

I assumed no such thing.

There are many more experienced white teachers. That is hopefully not in dispute. Therefore, accepting this assumption, it means a wealth of experienced teachers were retrenched, and they happen to be white. Don't come with this "well it was voluntary" claptrap. If I offer you money to retire early, surely you would likely accept. What is the alternative, assuming there is one?? Get fired, suspended or even transfered to Kyalitcha without your consent (as happened to the white council workers).

First of all please explain how you have come to the assupmtion that there are many more white teachers Have you ever even left Cape Town dude?

At my school (a township school), we had teachers imported from Ghana. This was during apartheid in the 80's. There was a shortage of maths and science teachers even then. The shortage of maths and science teachers is not something new. Like you said before a lot of those white teachers had a choice of accepting redeployment to township schools where they were most needed . A lot of them chose to retirement (personal choice).

As you can see they were costing the department a lot in salaries and yet they could not be used where they were needed.

Now Pandor is screaming that there is a shortage of teachers and we will have to get Zimbabweans or people from INDIA of all places! Surely these people could have been retained as advisors, commitee members ... something that helped the new generation. But no, they were white, so they had to go. That is the story, however much you try and dress it up.

They were not prepared to be redeployed. They were clearly surplus in their own schools and could not get themselves to teach at lowly township schools.