Shock burial plans for SA

[Zewp]

How about a very radical one. Make everyone organ donors.

While it's not a bad idea, seeing as it will go a long way to solve the problem with the lack of organs in the country, it would probably be considered unconstitutional.

I would totally support such a thing if it ever were possible, though. There are many people stuck on giant waiting lists, just waiting for organs.

 

[Space_Chief]

This insistence on "burying" your dead needs to be dealt with, it wastes valuable land.

One could argue that people who own houses with gardens and swimming pools also waste valuable land. It's all a subjective value assessment.

My grandfather was cremated, we took his ashes to the place he loved the most in this country (Zulu Battlefields), and spread his ashes there. It was considerably more symbolic for us than just have a grave that we could visit.

That worked for him and you. That it should work for others is beyond anything you asserted here.

 

[Space_Chief]

How about a very radical one. Make everyone organ donors.
Most organ donors are white males between the ages of 20 and 40.
Seems those selfish women only want to take take take.
And lets face it - our organs are too big for women and children. (Yeah yeah. You know what I mean.:wtf
And then cremate them. We can run the harvesting facility off the waste heat.

http://www.odf.org.za

Yeah let's just dictate morality to others. Let's tell others what to do.

By all means fill in an organ donor card. But don't force others.

Also don't see how it would alleviate the problem. You want to transplant organs from 90 year olds? And what with the rest of the body?

 

[XennoX]

One could argue that people who own houses with gardens and swimming pools also waste valuable land. It's all a subjective value assessment.

I'll go on record here and say I don't really know how to formulate my argument in a succinct manner so please forgive me.

Unlike a house, a cemetery is wasted space. You have this huge swath of land where its only function is to be a warehouse for decomposing bodies encased in a wooden coffin with some form of rock tombstone. A regular warehouse on the other hand sees constant movement. I don't know about you but I see that as incredibly wasteful and inefficient. A house is an active space, it houses the living who make use of the space and adds value. I can't really see a cemetery adding any value to be honest even if it does increase property prices.

 

[Space_Chief]

I'll go on record here and say I don't really know how to formulate my argument in a succinct manner so please forgive me.

No worries.

Unlike a house, a cemetery is wasted space.You have this huge swath of land where its only function is to be a warehouse for decomposing bodies encased in a wooden coffin with some form of rock tombstone. I don't know about you but I see that as incredibly wasteful and inefficient.

That's all subjective. So you see a bigger house serving a purpose, I don't. There is nothing about a big house which a smaller house can't do or even a flat or a communal dwelling can't do. Shelter? A smaller house or flat is just as good and uses less energy to heat/cool. Security - smaller is easier to secure. People are happy with tiny flats in Tokyo. Well why do we need such big houses? They only generate problems. And make people envious.

Cemeteries also have decomposing bodies. So the trees growing there, the flowers etc. also contribute to nature. In addition they provide some link with the past for many people. Some memorial for loved ones to visit and remember their loved ones. And feel happier or get something more beyond bread and circuses. Remembering ones' roots. It's hardly wasteful and inefficient. You may disagree but that's just you valuing one thing over another, more.

A house is an active space, it houses the living who make use of the space and adds value. I can't really see a cemetery adding any value to be honest even if it does increase property prices.

Well, value for you. But I don't see why property value should be the end all or be all of deciding anything in this regard. A cemetery can be just as active but in different ways.

And let's face it, we have tons of land we can use. In a place like Japan, cremation is mandatory, but in SA we waste a lot of land and much land is never utilised. And old cemeteries also get recycled and reused. In Observatory there is a shopping mall over where an old cemetery existed. It's not like the land will be unusable for centuries.

It all comes down to what you value. It doesn't work for you, so don't get buried. Have your ashes scattered - or flushed down the toilet. But don't force others to agree, ne.

 

[agentrfr]

Bury the coffins standing up.

Bam. 3x space saved.

 

[Compton_effect]

Yeah let's just dictate morality to others. Let's tell others what to do.

By all means fill in an organ donor card. But don't force others.

Also don't see how it would alleviate the problem. You want to transplant organs from 90 year olds? And what with the rest of the body?

Ooh. A moralist.
Nowhere does it say that your body is yours after death. You either stop existing, or go somewhere else.
Even the Muslim faith is still trying to decide about organ donation.
You're not going to need it anymore, why the heck should you have a right to say what happens to it?
And now its a extra burden on society, you selfish git.
This way you contribute at least once in your existence. Twice if you run a co-generation system off the crematorium.
First doggie bag, then burn.

How's this - you can decide to decline organ donation, but then you are also marked lowest priority as a recipient.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Bury the coffins standing up.

Bam. 3x space saved.

Unless you have the tips sticking out it still takes the same space, only vertically.

 

[Space_Chief]

Ooh. A moralist.

No you're the moralist. You want to control what people do. Even before death.

Nowhere does it say that your body is yours after death. You either stop existing, or go somewhere else.
Even the Muslim faith is still trying to decide about organ donation.

Whether you stop existing or go somewhere else, that's irrelevant. What's relevant is ONE person = YOU telling others what they should do. That's moralising. If it works for you great, but don't dictate to others.

You're not going to need it anymore, why the heck should you have a right to say what happens to it?
And now its a extra burden on society, you selfish git.

That's your moral view. What burden on what society? Let society speak for itself. Don't speak for the society and decide what is and what's not a burden. At most you can say: "My body is a burden. Flush it or vaporise it. Etc." That's fine. But that ends with you.

This way you contribute at least once in your existence. Twice if you run a co-generation system off the crematorium.
First doggie bag, then burn.

So you're saying people don't contribute when they're alive? And who decides what a contribution is? YOU. Surely you're contributing by laying this wonderful dogma on us.

How's this - you can decide to decline organ donation, but then you are also marked lowest priority as a recipient.

Again, who decides this? You? Stop moralising.

Also I don't see how organ donation will solve the problem of full cemeteries in SA.

 

[ponder]

Pig swill, so the rest of humanity can carry on eating bacon, that would be my contribution!

 

[Compton_effect]

Amother option.
Flush them down the drain.

The process is called alkaline hydrolysis and was developed in this country 16 years ago to get rid of animal carcasses. It uses lye, 300-degree heat and 60 pounds of pressure per square inch to destroy bodies in big stainless-steel cylinders that are similar to pressure cookers.

In addition to the liquid, the process leaves a dry bone residue similar in appearance and volume to cremated remains. It could be returned to the family in an urn or buried in a cemetery.

The coffee-colored liquid has the consistency of motor oil and a strong ammonia smell. But proponents say it is sterile and can, in most cases, be safely poured down the drain, provided the operation has the necessary permits.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249

...
consistency of motor oil...
Is it flammable? :twisted:

 

[Sinbad]

Pig swill, so the rest of humanity can carry on eating bacon, that would be my contribution!

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Why do people have to do it?
There are already many automated processing facilities that could handle it.
And space is not an issue... there is always a demand for fertiliser.

Have you forgotten the meat scandals we just had? Fertiliser? I see you being sold as food!

 

[Compton_effect]

No you're the moralist. You want to control what people do. Even before death.


Whether you stop existing or go somewhere else, that's irrelevant. What's relevant is ONE person = YOU telling others what they should do. That's moralising. If it works for you great, but don't dictate to others.



That's your moral view. What burden on what society? Let society speak for itself. Don't speak for the society and decide what is and what's not a burden. At most you can say: "My body is a burden. Flush it or vaporise it. Etc." That's fine. But that ends with you.



So you're saying people don't contribute when they're alive? And who decides what a contribution is? YOU. Surely you're contributing by laying this wonderful dogma on us.



Again, who decides this? You? Stop moralising.

Also I don't see how organ donation will solve the problem of full cemeteries in SA.

You take that back. Even my friends will tell you that I am a moral vacuum. Just very practical.
You keep on missing the bit about the cremation. Least amount of space. Myself - my ashes will be snuck into a latex factory and mixed into the condom vat...

 

[Space_Chief]

Have you forgotten the meat scandals we just had? Fertiliser? I see you being sold as food!

Human remains. Horse remains. Sheep remains. All same thing, Mr Panji. You're dealing with some outdated, petty, ?bourgeois, moral issues there. Besides the water you drank today probably made up the body of someone who may still be alive, or has been dead for 1000s of years. You cannibal, u.

 

[Space_Chief]

You take that back. Even my friends will tell you that I am a moral vacuum. Just very practical.
You keep on missing the bit about the cremation. Least amount of space. Myself - my ashes will be snuck into a latex factory and mixed into the condom vat...

When you dictate what is right or proper, you moralise.

 

[ponder]

Have you forgotten the meat scandals we just had? Fertiliser? I see you being sold as food!

Makes for happy people.

 

[LazyLion]

Have you forgotten the meat scandals we just had? Fertiliser? I see you being sold as food!

What would I care?... I would be dead!

 

[Compton_effect]

When you dictate what is right or proper, you moralise.

You take ethics from morals, right. With a pencil and paper?

But seriously. We are at 7.5 billion. That's a lot of bodies to dispose of. Radical ideas may be needed. And i wasn't joking about most organ donors being male. That is why doctors are going so far as to transplant organs from babies into recipients - a practice that would have been frowned upon a few years a go. Things are that desperate.
Baby Kidney Donor Is Britain's Youngest


Not to mention the global trade in black market organs that prey on the desperate.
Organ trafficking: a deadly trade

As for disposal - I keep on saying cremation. Its the most practical method if handling large volumes (Which we are, by the way). We know how to handle the waste products from that. We can easily process the smoke, and the waste heat can be used.
Most other methods take up a lot of space, or leaves a lot of waste products. You don't just fade away underground. It gets messy for a long time. Tip - never read up on embalming - they basically liquify your insides and flush you with fluid while dumping the liquified organs down the drain.

 

[MickeyD]

Cremations only, use ashes as fertilizer.

Dig up current cemeteries, cremate remains, recycle land.