Shock burial plans for SA

Zewp said:
While it's not a bad idea, seeing as it will go a long way to solve the problem with the lack of organs in the country, it would probably be considered unconstitutional.
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IMO organ donors status should be the default with the options of opting out. That should get around constitutional considerations.
 
In this forum there doesn't seem too much sensitivity around this topic.
 
My two cents... If it were an option, I'd have myself a little Viking funeral. Put me on a pyre in a boat, push it out to sea and have an archer shoot flaming arrows at it. Second would be a Memorial Diamond... Ash compressed at incredible heat and pressure to form diamonds. It's an actual thing and they do it in the UK... Kids and grandkids can use the diamonds for engagement rings or cutting glass or whatever... What do I care, I'll be dead.
 
markings said:
IMO organ donors status should be the default with the options of opting out. That should get around constitutional considerations.
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There is a private blood bank in the US called LifeShare. They do distribute to the national pool, but Lifeshare members get priority access (within limits).
I don't see why organ donation can't be run the same.
Two recipients need a kidney - one is a registered organ donor. That should be factored in to the descision(within limits).
That would also be a incentive for being one.

One option I like is cryogenic storage. My head bobbling in a jar of nitrogen for 200 years, then reanimated and given a second chance.
 
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Space_Chief said:
That's all subjective. So you see a bigger house serving a purpose, I don't. There is nothing about a big house which a smaller house can't do or even a flat or a communal dwelling can't do. Shelter? A smaller house or flat is just as good and uses less energy to heat/cool. Security - smaller is easier to secure. People are happy with tiny flats in Tokyo. Well why do we need such big houses? They only generate problems. And make people envious.
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I think I should clarify, when I mentioned house I was thinking more in line with a 900 m[sup]2[/sup] holding that houses a family of 4 or so. A regular cemetery is a great deal larger than that, for instance Braamfontein Cemetery is approximately 210 000 m[sup]2[/sup] - that's a lot of space smack bang in the middle of Johannesburg that is being used for nothing else but storage of decomposing bodies. (West Park Cemetery is approx 1 000 000 m[sup]2[/sup])

Space_Chief said:
Cemeteries also have decomposing bodies. So the trees growing there, the flowers etc. also contribute to nature. In addition they provide some link with the past for many people. Some memorial for loved ones to visit and remember their loved ones. And feel happier or get something more beyond bread and circuses. Remembering ones' roots. It's hardly wasteful and inefficient. You may disagree but that's just you valuing one thing over another, more.
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Linking to my statement above, why not get rid of the bodies and turn it into a public open space. In my opinion a public park would be a better use of space than a cemetery. Hell, maybe even turn the space into an inner city farm - you know the ones where they experiment with hydroponics or vertical farms it would be a first for South Africa if I remember correctly. You are correctly stating that I am valuing something above something else, in this case I'm valuing the living over the dead. Sure it creates a link for people, but I when I die I don't want a tombstone to be a legacy or the only lasting thing I've left behind. My legacy must be something more profound that a rock with my name on it.

Space_Chief said:
Well, value for you. But I don't see why property value should be the end all or be all of deciding anything in this regard. A cemetery can be just as active but in different ways.
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I should have clarified this further, I don't see property value as the de facto when deciding anything, I put that in because a cemetery is a dormant place, not much activity in terms of human activity but I see it as space that can be developed into something so much more useful to society.


Space_Chief said:
And let's face it, we have tons of land we can use. In a place like Japan, cremation is mandatory, but in SA we waste a lot of land and much land is never utilised. And old cemeteries also get recycled and reused. In Observatory there is a shopping mall over where an old cemetery existed. It's not like the land will be unusable for centuries.
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One word: stigma. The is generally a stigma associated with building over burial sites, probably thanks to media and superstition - thanks Poltergeist. With regards to us having tons of land available, sure we do have a lot available but we have to remember we cannot use our arable land and this would mean travelling vast distances to a burial site. I don't know about you but the last thing I want to do at a funeral is travel a large distance.

Space_Chief said:
It all comes down to what you value. It doesn't work for you, so don't get buried. Have your ashes scattered - or flushed down the toilet. But don't force others to agree, ne. :)
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In the end it doesn't matter what I value, I cease to live. Best make sure I'm used as efficiently as possible and am not a possible burden to society later on - burn me up Scotty.
 
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ponder said:
Makes for happy people.

zf3iR.jpg
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No matter how many times I see that picture, it never gets any less disturbing.
 
What's wrong with good, old-fashioned catacombs?

catacombs1.jpg

Plus they double as awesome tourist attractions.
 
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Mortymoose said:
The Kalahari is a big space....
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I was thinking the same - we are hardly running out of space - driving or flying between cape town & jhb will reveal a massive open area of - well nothing, nothing at all.
Before we are able to fill the karoo with coffins and run out of space, humanity will have been long wiped out.

Buy for those who for some reason actually believe we are running out of space, promession IMO is the way to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promession
 
XennoX said:
I think I should clarify, when I mentioned house I was thinking more in line with a 900 m[sup]2[/sup] holding that houses a family of 4 or so. A regular cemetery is a great deal larger than that, for instance Braamfontein Cemetery is approximately 210 000 m[sup]2[/sup] - that's a lot of space smack bang in the middle of Johannesburg that is being used for nothing else but storage of decomposing bodies. (West Park Cemetery is approx 1 000 000 m[sup]2[/sup])
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You're comparing a 900m2 space which caters for 4 with a larger space which caters for 1000s. I'd argue also that 900m2 is a luxury for a family of 4. They don't need so much space.



Linking to my statement above, why not get rid of the bodies and turn it into a public open space. In my opinion a public park would be a better use of space than a cemetery. Hell, maybe even turn the space into an inner city farm - you know the ones where they experiment with hydroponics or vertical farms it would be a first for South Africa if I remember correctly. You are correctly stating that I am valuing something above something else, in this case I'm valuing the living over the dead. Sure it creates a link for people, but I when I die I don't want a tombstone to be a legacy or the only lasting thing I've left behind. My legacy must be something more profound that a rock with my name on it.
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The tombstone is not your legacy. At least that's now what's understood by many of the people who bury their dead in cemeteries. As to what would be better, it's again YOUR value judgement. There are many spaces we could do this. Why not turn some of the strip joints into such? Or strip malls? Or parks? Or peoples' property. Where I live people live in huge houses some costing R15million and up. Do these people really need so much space?



I should have clarified this further, I don't see property value as the de facto when deciding anything, I put that in because a cemetery is a dormant place, not much activity in terms of human activity but I see it as space that can be developed into something so much more useful to society.
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Useful to you. That cemeteries exist, means they're already useful for many people in society. What you're essentially saying is telling all these people who find use in them to get lost, because your values trump theirs. That you're happy with telling other people how to live in a time where we're no longer judging gays or prostitutes-- people who at one stage were judged quite severely, tells me your system is old fashioned and needs to be rejected for modernity's sake. You also seem to lack compassion. You don't really try to think of the other people who value cemeteries, eh? I hope you try to think of others, and how they feel, ne?




One word: stigma. The is generally a stigma associated with building over burial sites, probably thanks to media and superstition - thanks Poltergeist. With regards to us having tons of land available, sure we do have a lot available but we have to remember we cannot use our arable land and this would mean travelling vast distances to a burial site. I don't know about you but the last thing I want to do at a funeral is travel a large distance.
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I dunno. I see thousands of people going to the Lady Bee and the PnP and Spur where once Victorian Capetownians were buried. I also see homeless people sleep and erect shelters in the remaining bit of cemetery. And in some parts of the world they remove the decomposing bodies and dress them up during certain festivals and feast days. In Shinto for example people pack their deceased relatives' remains in containers themselves. There's still pieces of bone and whatnot there.

Arable land: There is nothing growing, beyond the occasional personal veggy garden over the area of Cape Town I travel every day. I don't think we're running so out of arable land that we need to bring that red herring in. As for travel, again, that's your thing. Some people may not mind traveling but we don't really need that at this stage. Cemeteries, as said, get reused.

In the end it doesn't matter what I value, I cease to live. Best make sure I'm used as efficiently as possible and am not a possible burden to society later on - burn me up Scotty.
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It's what you value when you're still alive and what others value - i.e. your loved ones, members of your community etc. I was not thinking at all about dead people. But if you cease when you die, why care that you may or may not be a burden to society, at all?

Again what is a burden? What is society? It's all subjective. In many parts of the world as said, cemeteries are valued and people get value from them, they're not seen as a burden at all. That beyond, bread and circuses, or eating, sleeping and penetrating body cavities. ;)
 
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markings said:
In this forum there doesn't seem too much sensitivity around this topic.
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Spot on.

Meat with metabolic processes going on = valuable. Meat with OTHER metabolic processes going on = trash. ;)
 
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I love cemeteries.

So old-fashioned, so beautiful. There is one in Cape Town below Rhodes Men, just across from the Mostert windmill, where several generations of Mosterts are buried. It's totally neglected. Beautiful place, gravestones collapsing, grass overgrowing everything. I often take my dogs walking there, and its a nice place to have a few beers in summer.

When I die, I want to be donated to organ recipients, the rest can go to UCT medical school.
 
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