Sign a warning letter?

Dolby

Dolby

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A really terrible GM started at our company and for whatever her reason is - dislikes me and is trying to work me out. I'm going to CCMA - but curious :

If you presented with a warning letter, do you HAVE to sign it and appeal later?

Or are you entitled to disagree and refuse the signature?
 
Time to find another job...
And by the way, refusing to sign, will count against you at the CCMA...
 
Thanks.

I initially refused to sign (no proof as yet) and she made me sign before I left the room. Though just found this that one can refuse to sign :

http://www.labourguide.co.za/warnings

The employee signs this to state that he understands the contents of the warning and that he has received a copy. He is not signing to say that he agrees with it – only that he understands it and has received a copy. Should the employee refuse to sign, then hand him a copy in the presence of the witness, and the witness will certify on the file copy of the warning that a copy was handed to the employee.


Though, it does mentioning signing is an acknowledgement
 
Sonic2k said:
Time to find another job...
And by the way, refusing to sign, will count against you at the CCMA...
Click to expand...

I am - 18 months and loving it, until this woman joins ...

Why will it count against me ?
And what is the difference between a labour lawyer and CCMA?
One a 'state appointed' free option?
 
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As it states signing is an acknowledgement only that you were made aware of the contents and implications. Refusing to sign the witness does so to acknowledge you were made aware and it goes on your file the same way. "Count against you" means it could be perceived you were argumentative and unwilling to engage. Until you are fired they all mean the same so you should just sign, and maybe keep records for yourself of your objections when and if you need them.
 
You're supposed to sign for receipt.

Its essentially unnecessary though - like half the dismissal cases I've seen didn't have signed warning or even signed dismissal letters. The companies can & do fire people unilaterally (e.g. if a worker just disappears & they literally can't find him)...as long as there is sufficient other proof to show that they've done all that labour law crap about meetings, efforts to remediate, warnings, attendance registers etc...i.e. company did everything by the book their side.
 
Rickster said:
Who would be so cruel to give Dolby a warning letter. :cry:
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I know, right ...

I mumbled under my breathe '****, really' so I'm probably getting my 3rd in 3 weeks tomorrow. And she has the cheek to say it's nothing personal ....
 
Dolby said:
I am - 18 months and loving it, until this woman joins ...

Why will it count against me ?
And what is the difference between a labour lawyer and CCMA?
One a 'state appointed' free option?
Click to expand...

The ccma folk are supposed to be neutral arbitrators, while a labour lawyer is either for the employee or the employer.

In the case I saw at out office a few years back, the ccma seemed very neutral to the point that they didn't help much but did ref and document proceedings. Final score was employer 1-0 employee.
My gosh, but it took 6 months and a file that wouldn't close it had so much documentation of everything that happened. Eventually we managed to get rid of the oxygen thief and free a vacancy.

PS, one tactic that seemed to halt proceedings was when the employee logged a formal grievance against one manager, then when it was closed, logged another against another manager. Crazy, but if you want to buy yourself sometime... (probably count against you in the end though).
 
Didn't you post about sleeping with a senior person at work? And this wouldn't be the same person? Unless I mis-remember.
 
Dolby said:
Thanks.

I initially refused to sign (no proof as yet) and she made me sign before I left the room
Click to expand...
I once was forced to sign a letter. Before this I read the letter was false and drafted my own which was truthful and which I signed. The HR lady kept on insisting I sign the company letter as well. I ended doing it just to get her off my back as she kept on nagging me. I later regretted it. Just remember it will always come back to bite you. If someone forces you to sign something it means that they are not the party in power and they are desperately trying to get power by forcing you to do what they want.

I would tell the OP to watch the series Suits. Its probably so popular because it is so applicable to real corporate environment with lots of backstabbing and jockeying for position.

“What are your choices when someone puts a gun to your head?
What are you talking about? You do what they say or they shoot you.
WRONG. You take the gun, or you pull out a bigger one. Or, you call their bluff. Or, you do any one of a hundred and forty six other things.”
Click to expand...
 
R13... said:
Didn't you post about sleeping with a senior person at work? And this wouldn't be the same person? Unless I mis-remember.
Click to expand...

I dated that person - but she's left. Good memory though ...

This is a new GM that has taken over. My main worry was the forcing to sign the letter. There is background to the letters, but they're

- Failing to a give compulsory training to sales staff
- Failing to be prepared in a meeting
- Insubordination (actually, muttering under my breathe 'fsck, really ...' as I signed #2

This one was promised to me, though.
 
skimread said:
I ended doing it just to get her off my back as she kept on nagging me. I later regretted it. Just remember it will always come back to bite you.
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Yea, going to appeal them tomorrow or the next day.
 
Dolby said:
I dated that person - but she's left. Good memory though ...

This is a new GM that has taken over. My main worry was the forcing to sign the letter. There is background to the letters, but they're

- Failing to a give compulsory training to sales staff
- Failing to be prepared in a meeting
- Insubordination (actually, muttering under my breathe 'fsck, really ...' as I signed #2

This one was promised to me, though.
Click to expand...

What were the reasons for 1 & 2? Were they out of your control?
 
abzo said:
I dunno, they sound deserved.
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Fudzy said:
What were the reasons for 1 & 2? Were they out of your control?
Click to expand...

#1 I hadn't sent out invites myself, which I was told to do before training commences. Hence, I did expect any training and wasn't in the room. I was, however, 50m away if someone had called me. I put it down to a misunderstanding between parties sending the invites.

#2 I received the invite - with no agenda or template attached for the meeting. I mailed that morning and questioned it - but still received no agenda or template. I was simply told it WAS sent - but no proof. This happened at 4pm - so yea, I'll try get that proof of sending.

#3 I was frustrated at having to sign #2 and mumbled it under my breathe

Been chatting to people now that laugh at 'not being prepared for a meeting' as being something valid and said the CCMA would probably laugh too. I'm not sure - I'm just checking the processes.

What she wants to achieve is clear with silly warnings. I think most companies would pull you aside and say 'hey, please don't let it happen again' and nothing is a real serious offense
 
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