Sim Tshabala: Nationalisation

[Kompete]

very good article, imo

sounds very much like him too

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=147755
The ANC Youth League and other opinion makers have been arguing for a while now that South Africa’s mines and banks should be nationalised.
It should be accepted that these proposals are not merely the product of shrewd political manoeuvring. As analysts from across the political spectrum have pointed out, they are the effects of the pain and anger caused by persistent grinding poverty for millions, deep-rooted mass unemployment, and a level of inequality that is both morally unacceptable and constitutes a real threat to social cohesion. The statistics are chilling: 65% of South Africans live on less the R550 a month – less than a monthly satellite TV subscription. 12% are desperately poor, struggling to survive on R150 a month. One in five children shows signs of malnutrition. The unemployment rate for black South Africans under 30 is over 50%. Two-thirds of 15-to-30 year olds who want work have never been able to find a job.
....
If, however, it is envisaged that the ownership of banks would be seized without compensation, then a cogent explanation needs to be given to the domestic savers, individual pensioners, pension funds, domestic financial institutions and international financial institutions who are shareholders for why they should contemplate such seizure with equanimity. Furthermore, how would the decision make process work? Would South African constitutional law permit this?

Persistent and aggressive talk about nationalisation is arguably a signal that the answers to these may result in ratings downgrades in due course as a result of what the ratings agencies call a ‘deteriorating policy environment’ pursuant to an inability by policy makers to resist the impulse to re-write the rules when political pressures mount.
If that worry gets really serious, it is arguable that South Africa could suffer a ‘sovereign downgrade,’ as Venezuela did in 2002 when the Chavez government threatened to nationalise the banks there. And if South Africa seemed to be at risk of following Venezuela’s example, every South African individual and company - banks included - would find it much more expensive to borrow money.
....
Second, experience from all over the world shows that nationalised banks and state-run banking systems usually turn out to be expensive misadventures - precisely because they are not managed properly. [...lists several examples]
....
Those African countries that have avoided experiments with wholesale bank nationalisation – notably Botswana, Kenya, Mauritius and South Africa – are also those with the most advanced financial systems and the most developed economies on the continent. This isn’t a coincidence: worldwide, the statistics show, there’s a strong positive relationship between the appropriate development of the financial sector and national wealth.
....
Finally, South Africa’s banks need to do more than just refute the pro-nationalisation arguments. We need to work harder as committed corporate citizens to reduce poverty, unemployment and inequality. As long as these persist at current levels, no spirited protestations will be convincing to those that are excluded and marginalised who find banking and finance undemocratic.

...more

 

[grayston]

Dude. Haven't you heard? It's quite simple and it goes like this: Nationalisation->everyone's suddenly rich.

(There's a separate school of thought that goes Free Market->everyone's suddenly rich, but in both cases the point is that everyone suddenly gets rich and there are no consequences.)

 

[killadoob]

Trouble with suddenly getting rich is you forget how you got rich and then you become poor again

 

[AstroTurf]

Too many big words for the target audience to understand.

 

[DreamKing]

Dude. Haven't you heard? It's quite simple and it goes like this: Nationalisation->everyone's suddenly rich.

(There's a separate school of thought that goes Free Market->everyone's suddenly rich, but in both cases the point is that everyone suddenly gets rich and there are no consequences.)

you see.... everyone in zim is a billionaire now

what is a problem?

 

[grok]

The statistics are chilling: 65% of South Africans live on less the R550 a month – less than a monthly satellite TV subscription. 12% are desperately poor, struggling to survive on R150 a month. One in five children shows signs of malnutrition. The unemployment rate for black South Africans under 30 is over 50%. Two-thirds of 15-to-30 year olds who want work have never been able to find a job.

From yesterdays article 'Why ANC need never worry about losing'

Even more striking is the ANC voters' education levels:

Only 8% of ANC supporters have a higher-education qualification;
23% have graduated from high school; and
69% either have no education or have not completed high school.

I see a correlation there..

 

[Shayd]

Keeping em dumb keeps em voting anc.

Its bloody sad but the poor keep getting screwed because it works for the ruling elite

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[CyraxHB]

A good article by Sim "Cheque Book" Tshabala. He's likely to take over as head of Standard in a few years, so its good to know he won't be pandering to the ANCYL.

 

[VioAdmin]

Yes, NATIONALIZE everything. Don't let the other countries who simply want to set-up shop here and take all the money and resources back to Europe/Austrilia/US.

This is a clever move and they need to do it asap with the banks, land and especially the mines. Keep everything under YOUR control, don't let OTHERS control your own country. You will end up like the other African nations relying on "donations" from these European empires that you will never be able to pay back.

Forget all that, this country and all countries in Africa should do the same. It is a giant step in removing reliance from off-shore colonization experts(EU/US)

 

[D.B.Cooper]

Yes, NATIONALIZE everything. Don't let the other countries who simply want to set-up shop here and take all the money and resources back to Europe/Austrilia/US.

This is a clever move and they need to do it asap with the banks, land and especially the mines. Keep everything under YOUR control, don't let OTHERS control your own country. You will end up like the other African nations relying on "donations" from these European empires that you will never be able to pay back.

Forget all that, this country and all countries in Africa should do the same. It is a giant step in removing reliance from off-shore colonization experts(EU/US)

And when everything goes pear-shaped they'll come crawling back to EU/US with the begging bowl in hand?

 

[VioAdmin]

And when everything goes pear-shaped they'll come crawling back to EU/US with the begging bowl in hand?

Nothing would go "pear-shaped" -- Africa has the most resources on the ENTIRE PLANET. Why do you think Europe won't leave this country? Look at all the banks they open here, all these Vodacom companies etc...They know there is a lot of money to be made here, HELLA. Take a look at whats going on around the world, Asia and Africa are going to be the main driving forces if we are going to have a stable global economy, this is basically a fact.

Forget going back to them, they actually NEED US, we don't need THEM. This is what the youth is starting to realize thanks to the internet etc, but some people still believe we need their help, no, they are here to rob.

I suggest you google a guy named Thomas Sankara, you will be amazed at what he did in so little time.

 

[nightjar]

Nothing would go "pear-shaped" -- Africa has the most resources on the ENTIRE PLANET. Why do you think Europe won't leave this country? Look at all the banks they open here, all these Vodacom companies etc...They know there is a lot of money to be made here, HELLA. Take a look at whats going on around the world, Asia and Africa are going to be the main driving forces if we are going to have a stable global economy, this is basically a fact.

Forget going back to them, they actually NEED US, we don't need THEM. This is what the youth is starting to realize thanks to the internet etc, but some people still believe we need their help, no, they are here to rob.

I suggest you google a guy named Thomas Sankara, you will be amazed at what he did in so little time.

RE. Africa has the most resources on the ENTIRE PLANET. Why do you think Europe won't leave this country
Simple answer.
For thousands of years Africans never had the brains or initiative to do anything with the resources.
They were content to sit on their bums and drink beer (or Johnny Walker Blue Label) and raid neighbouring villages for cattle & women when they got randy.
It needed European initiative to make anything happen.

RE. google a guy named Thomas Sankara
Just another murderous thug who believed in a system that murdered countless millions around the world in the name of communism.

Just like the one we've got here and most of the people on this forum don't want to see it.

 

[VioAdmin]

RE. Africa has the most resources on the ENTIRE PLANET. Why do you think Europe won't leave this country
Simple answer.
For thousands of years Africans never had the brains or initiative to do anything with the resources.
They were content to sit on their bums and drink beer (or Johnny Walker Blue Label) and raid neighbouring villages for cattle & women when they got randy.
It needed European initiative to make anything happen.

RE. google a guy named Thomas Sankara
Just another murderous thug who believed in a system that murdered countless millions around the world in the name of communism.

Just like the one we've got here and most of the people on this forum don't want to see it.

Ok, I see the type of message you are trying to post but even YOU are here, why are YOU here then? Are you here because of the Europeans or....? Ya, thats what I thought...

Africans had the brains and the initiatives to do whatever they want. They lived in Peace, look at the northern countries including SUDAN, look at the pyramid schemes built there(they vary from the ones found in Egypt)

And please, they did not just sit and drink beer, the beer's etc were introduced by the Europeans to slow and trap the minds of the Africans, who the hell invinted your Johnny Walker? You think an African did that? Please, think for a second here, figure out the game that is being played. Your statements are illogical. The Europeans and Americans control the history books, if you want to know the real truth, go watch this new DVD that just got released titled, HIDDEN COLORS.

Also, Thomas Sankara was not a "murderous thug" if you want to talk murders and thugs please look at the apartheid regime and the slave trade system introduced here by the Americans and Europeans. Ya, once again, that's what I thought...

Thomas Sankara was able to turn around a nation that was forced and tricked to believe that it needed the European money/donations to survive, IT DIDN'T. In literally a matter of months, he was able to turn around that country and made the ENTIRE COUNTRY SELF SUFFICIENT on FOOD, think about that, just take a few minutes and let that sink in.

Of course you know what happened to him right? After the French found out he was spreading his knowledge around and might cause a revolution across the other African countries, he was assassinated and the French regained control of the country.

So clearly it can be done and South Africa has more than enough money and resources to pull through and I hope they do it(looks like they will!).

Europeans won't like it as African nations are becoming more powerful(nigeria predicted to be top 10 wealthiest countries in the world in less than 10 years via wikileaks).

Africa is rising, slowly but we are finally starting to understand that we DON'T NEED ANYONE to help us but ourselves. [Insert your God(s) here] BLESS AFRICA!

 

[nightjar]

Ok, I see the type of message you are trying to post ......................................................we DON'T NEED ANYONE to help us but ourselves. [Insert your God(s) here] BLESS AFRICA!

RE. Africans …......They lived in Peace,
A good example of African Peace is the butchery perpetrated for nearly a hundred years by Tshaka, Mzilikaze, Dingane et al on their black neighbours.
Luckily for the useless, idle ancestors the Europeans ended the bloodshed.

RE. northern countries including SUDAN, look at the pyramid schemes built there....
Pyramids?
Please provide a link.

RE. And please, they did not just sit and drink beer, the beer's etc were introduced by the Europeans
Balls. They brewed their their own beer from that corn with the funny name.

Re. who the hell invinted your Johnny Walker?
I only mention that (note BLUE LABEL) because of that fat slug who builds bridges (with taxpayer funds) that fall down after a few months.
What can we expect from a bad woodwork grade?

RE. go watch this new DVD that just got released titled, HIDDEN COLORS.
Please send me a copy.

RE. if you want to talk murders and thugs please look at the apartheid regime and the slave trade system introduced here by the Americans and Europeans.
The apartheid regime was positively benign in comparison to the butchery perpetrated for nearly a hundred years by Tshaka, Mzilikaze, Dingane et al on their black neighbours.
The apartheid regime was also positively benign in comparison to the atrocities perpetrated by the ANC in Quatro and other camps around the borders.

Slavery was introduced a thousand years ago on the east coast by the Arabs and was enthusiastically supported by all the local chiefs. Europeans joined in much later and ultimately suppressed (mostly by the British) the trade in the 1800s.

It's ironic.
Slavery brought cheap labour to America but has actually turned into a malignant cancer that is now destroying American society. The Arabs castrated all their slaves and do not have the same troubles.

RE. nigeria predicted to be top 10 wealthiest countries in the world in less than 10 years via wikileaks).
YA. When that happens I'll kiss your ar$e in front of the Union Buildings

Africa is rising, slowly but we are finally starting to understand that we DON'T NEED ANYONE to help us but ourselves.
Just like Haiti and Liberia after two hundred years of black rule?

 

[Flanders]

Forget going back to them, they actually NEED US, we don't need THEM.

I reckon they need us like a fish needs a bicycle.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

Lol @ Africa not needing the west! Can you please explain why Africa still beg from the west ? Or why Zim is such a huge success after the colonists left ? Why did Nigeria go backwards after independence ?

I suggest you read You Capitalist ******.

Sent from my HTC Desire using MyBroadband Android App

 

[VioAdmin]

RE. Africans …......They lived in Peace,
A good example of African Peace is the butchery perpetrated for nearly a hundred years by Tshaka, Mzilikaze, Dingane et al on their black neighbours.
Luckily for the useless, idle ancestors the Europeans ended the bloodshed.

RE. northern countries including SUDAN, look at the pyramid schemes built there....
Pyramids?
Please provide a link.

RE. And please, they did not just sit and drink beer, the beer's etc were introduced by the Europeans
Balls. They brewed their their own beer from that corn with the funny name.

Re. who the hell invinted your Johnny Walker?
I only mention that (note BLUE LABEL) because of that fat slug who builds bridges (with taxpayer funds) that fall down after a few months.
What can we expect from a bad woodwork grade?

RE. go watch this new DVD that just got released titled, HIDDEN COLORS.
Please send me a copy.

RE. if you want to talk murders and thugs please look at the apartheid regime and the slave trade system introduced here by the Americans and Europeans.
The apartheid regime was positively benign in comparison to the butchery perpetrated for nearly a hundred years by Tshaka, Mzilikaze, Dingane et al on their black neighbours.
The apartheid regime was also positively benign in comparison to the atrocities perpetrated by the ANC in Quatro and other camps around the borders.

Slavery was introduced a thousand years ago on the east coast by the Arabs and was enthusiastically supported by all the local chiefs. Europeans joined in much later and ultimately suppressed (mostly by the British) the trade in the 1800s.

It's ironic.
Slavery brought cheap labour to America but has actually turned into a malignant cancer that is now destroying American society. The Arabs castrated all their slaves and do not have the same troubles.

RE. nigeria predicted to be top 10 wealthiest countries in the world in less than 10 years via wikileaks).
YA. When that happens I'll kiss your ar$e in front of the Union Buildings

Africa is rising, slowly but we are finally starting to understand that we DON'T NEED ANYONE to help us but ourselves.
Just like Haiti and Liberia after two hundred years of black rule?

Once again, most, if not all of your replies are simply illogical. First of all, a 3 second type in of "Sudan Pyramids" on google shows images, videos, links etc. I can clearly see you have no idea about African history but I am glad we met on here, time for you to know the truth.

*You talk about butchery etc and your example is of one isolated event, tell me how long did it last? How many people were killed? What was going on? Were they fighting for land? Ya, thought so. Every era, especially back then had battles, Europe has had more wars than any other nation.

-The Europeans created the borders in Africa to conquer it, remember, to conquer, you simply divide.

*So you think all African's did was drink beer, how does this make sense? Even now, African's don't even drink that much, there was an article here about it, you can guess who drinks more on average, who has more people in addicted to alcoholism etc? Ya, once again, THOUGHT SO.

*Your quote about the apartheid regime being in any shape or form positive clearly shows me your attitude/feelings towards the native Africans, it's no secret, I mean after-all THIS IS SOUTH AFRICA, the entire planet knows this place for it's racial segregation issues that CLEARLY still linger us today, sigh... You have no idea about anything if you think the apartheid era can be compared to anything the ANC has done or is going to do, please, give that a rest.

*The DVD of Hidden Colors is $~40 USD I believe with shipping included, support YOUR FELLOW Africans and purchase it.

*Ok, Slavery was not introduced by the Arabs as the europeans/us historians will tell you, some sort of slavery happened in every nation, and every continent, including china, mongolia, japan etc...The only problem was THE EUROPEANS AND AMERICANS CAME TO AFRICA AND STOLE THE SLAVES! They disturbed the system! The Slavery system would have solved by itself if they did not come and **EXPORT THE SLAVES** from their home continent, this was THE PROBLEM. No other nation did this but the EUROPEANS/US.

*Go look at the wikileaks about Nigeria, it is currently ranked #8 in exporting oil world wide, accounting for almost 10% of the US oil and much more to come. Sure the Government system is corrupt(which govt isn't?) Of course the US/EU want to destroy the stability the country has so they have sent their agents in to cause problems like they have with Libya in order to control the oil but either way, the future is clearly bright.

*Haiti and Liberia, you once again use 2 isolated countries, how about South Africa? How about Botswana? How about Mozambique? How about Namibia? How about Libya? How about Kenya? lol, THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT. Haiti has been devasted by natural distesters, also, in a recent wikileaks, it showed that the US/EU were forcing Haitian government to *LOWER THE WAGES, this is so that they can once again deplete the country into submission to keep their prices of exports at whatever level they want.

GOOGLE it, it was quite big news last week on some sites, just type in "Haiti wages wikileaks" and you will be disgusted by these European/American's on what they do to African people.

I can see your replies are full of racial jabs, especially about the "It's ironic" part and I don't wish to get into it, you are simply a product of your environment and perhaps your feelings are stored via DNA because it clearly doesn't make sense to hate the "native Africans" but yet be on their land, eating their food and resources. Selfish or hilarious?

 

[Vrotappel]

No sense in arguing with VioAdmin. The ANC brainwashing is big in him. Sadly he is an example of his generation. Africans never learn from their past. When Mugade took Zimbabwe and destroyed it Mugabe was hailed as a hero. That is Africa for you.

 

[warchylde]

RE. Africans …......They lived in Peace,
A good example of African Peace is the butchery perpetrated for nearly a hundred years by Tshaka, Mzilikaze, Dingane et al on their black neighbours.
Luckily for the useless, idle ancestors the Europeans ended the bloodshed.

RE. northern countries including SUDAN, look at the pyramid schemes built there....
Pyramids?
Please provide a link.

RE. And please, they did not just sit and drink beer, the beer's etc were introduced by the Europeans
Balls. They brewed their their own beer from that corn with the funny name.

Re. who the hell invinted your Johnny Walker?
I only mention that (note BLUE LABEL) because of that fat slug who builds bridges (with taxpayer funds) that fall down after a few months.
What can we expect from a bad woodwork grade?

RE. go watch this new DVD that just got released titled, HIDDEN COLORS.
Please send me a copy.

RE. if you want to talk murders and thugs please look at the apartheid regime and the slave trade system introduced here by the Americans and Europeans.
The apartheid regime was positively benign in comparison to the butchery perpetrated for nearly a hundred years by Tshaka, Mzilikaze, Dingane et al on their black neighbours.
The apartheid regime was also positively benign in comparison to the atrocities perpetrated by the ANC in Quatro and other camps around the borders.

Slavery was introduced a thousand years ago on the east coast by the Arabs and was enthusiastically supported by all the local chiefs. Europeans joined in much later and ultimately suppressed (mostly by the British) the trade in the 1800s.

It's ironic.
Slavery brought cheap labour to America but has actually turned into a malignant cancer that is now destroying American society. The Arabs castrated all their slaves and do not have the same troubles.

RE. nigeria predicted to be top 10 wealthiest countries in the world in less than 10 years via wikileaks).
YA. When that happens I'll kiss your ar$e in front of the Union Buildings

Africa is rising, slowly but we are finally starting to understand that we DON'T NEED ANYONE to help us but ourselves.
Just like Haiti and Liberia after two hundred years of black rule?

It doesn't help trying to convince him he is wrong. He is stuck in his illusion


Sent from my Desire HD using MyBroadband Android App

 

[Geriatrix]

*Haiti and Liberia, you once again use 2 isolated countries, how about South Africa? How about Botswana? How about Mozambique? How about Namibia? How about Libya? How about Kenya?

I like how you list all these examples of successful African countries(Libya? Seriously?) that all heavily rely on foreign trade, investment and co-operation and how you then in the same breath declare we don't need foreign investment and that we should destroy all the development, money and knowledge they pump in here. Botswana, Kenya, Mauritius and South Africa are also the few African countries that have not(yet) completely decimated their banking industries with this naive nationalization catastrophes.

If even a seeming educated guy like you can believe this nationalization and isolationist bull**** all hope in this country is lost.