Six-Day War 40th anniversary

[marine1]

Does not compute? Oh Seems like the reason Kilo does not understand pictures and English is because he is a Pentium 1. ROFLMAO

 

[kilo39]

Does not compute? Oh Seems like the reason Kilo does not understand pictures and English is because he is a Pentium 1. ROFLMAO

Ah at least we can have a laugh (though notably as soon as you extend the hand of friendship it gets bitten off!)

 

[marine1]

Grrrrrr

 

[chiskop]

More than 40% of Gaza’s people are children under 15. Reporting on a four-year field study in occupied Palestine for the British Medical Journal, Derek Summerfield wrote that “two-thirds of the 621 children killed at checkpoints, in the street, on the way to school, in their homes, died from small arms fire, directed in over half of cases to the head, neck and chest — the sniper’s wound”.

Remind me again, who are the terrorists?

 

[Skeptik]

A child with a gun/rock/improvised bomb is also a valid target?

 

[Alan]

One dead as gunmen open fire at sports day at UN school in Gaza

Local residents said the gunmen, whom they described as Muslim extremists, arrived at the school and warned through loudspeakers against letting boys and girls participate in the sports day.

The gunmen said the event "taught children immoral values."

A dozen small boys, not yet teenagers, were among relatives gathered at a funeral in Gaza on Friday for a young man killed in clashes between Palestinian militants and Israeli troops.

Asked if they would learn from the death of 19-year-old Mohammed Maher Shahine, killed while watching Thursday’s fighting as Israel stepped up an offensive in the strip, the boys answered almost with one voice.

“No. We want to be martyrs too,” they said, seemingly oblivious to the danger of following around bands of gunmen as they battle more powerful Israeli troops, who are backed by tanks and helicopters.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060707/wl_nm/mideast_gaza_funeral_dc

Hamas: "Children fight alongside the adults in the resistance"

Yemen News reported: "A Hamas representative [in Yemen] Jamal Issa … stated that the Palestinian children fight alongside the adults in the resistance."

Suicide terror for children is now being actively promoted on the Hamas children's web site al-fateh.net. The new material posted yesterday is a short fictional story for children, glorifying a young girl's suicide terror attack. It describes how she calmly progresses, step by step, planning and executing her death in a suicide terror attack. The girl heroically leads "Zionist soldiers" to their death, all the while knowing she will be killed along with them. In death she is said to be "smiling, lying on the grass, because she died as a Shahida (Martyr for Allah) for Palestine." The story is entitled "A Palestinian Girl's Heroism."

http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=165&P3=1

http://pmw.org.il/tv part1.html

JERUSALEM (AFP) - A leading human rights group has urged Palestinian armed groups not to endanger civilian lives by encouraging “human shields” to prevent threatened Israeli attacks on militants’ homes.

Human Rights Watch issued the call after hundreds of Palestinians in recent days flocked to homes of militants in the Gaza Strip to avert air strikes.

Israel’s military generally gives prior warning that buildings will be destroyed.

“Palestinian armed groups must not endanger Palestinian civilians by encouraging them to gather in and around suspected militants homes targeted by the Israel Defence Forces (IDF),” the New-York based group said Wednesday.

“There is no excuse for calling civilians to the scene of a planned attack,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, the group’s Middle East director.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061122/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictshield

West Bank - In a rare letter of protest sent in early December to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, a Palestinian women’s group demanded that the Palestinian Authority stop using children as cannon fodder.
“Our children are being sent into the streets to face heavily armed Israeli soldiers,” said the letter from the Tulkarm Women’s Union - a local branch of the Palestinian Women’s Union, a trade-union group that promotes the status of women in the Palestinian Authority.
“The Palestinian Authority must put an end to this phenomenon. We urge you to issue instructions to your police force to stop sending innocent children to their death.”
The letter adds weight to complaints from parents who are beginning to speak out despite what they say has been months of intimidation by armed gunmen loyal to Arafat.
‘We don’t want to send our sons to the front line, but they are being taken by the Palestinian Authority,” says Aisheh, 43, a mother of six in the West Bank city of Tulkarm. She says she decided to speak out after her 17-year-old son was hit in the head by a rubber bullet. He suffered a concussion.

http://freeisraelnow.wordpress.com/tag/war-on-terror/

 

[chiskop]

A child with a gun/rock/improvised bomb is also a valid target?

One dead as gunmen open fire at sports day at UN school in Gaza

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060707/wl_nm/mideast_gaza_funeral_dc

Hamas: "Children fight alongside the adults in the resistance"

http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=165&P3=1

http://pmw.org.il/tv part1.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061122/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictshield

http://freeisraelnow.wordpress.com/tag/war-on-terror/

You guys will defend anything.

 

[marine1]

As long as they are wiping out the Mujahadin terrorists I support them

 

[Syndyre]

Remind me again, who are the terrorists?

Nice unbiased article you managed to dig up there. And there's no evidence those bullets were fired by Israeli snipers anyway so your point is?

 

[Syndyre]

A child with a gun/rock/improvised bomb is also a valid target?

If a child is shooting at them what do you suggest they do, wave?

 

[Alan]

You guys will defend anything.

Fact is fact. If you use children as fighters or human shields they will get killed.

But it seems you don't have a problem with them being used that way or having innocent civilians including children deliberately targeted by suicide bombers which is rather

 

[marine1]

Exactly Alan. I say well done to the IDF. If they are being attacked one thing the Israeli's do not do is sit around and take cover. They fight back. Fight fire with fire!!

 

[Syndyre]

Exactly Alan. I say well done to the IDF. If they are being attacked one thing the Israeli's do not do is sit around and take cover. They fight back. Fight fire with fire!!

Exactly.

 

[marine1]

Glad we are on the same page. But seriously I take my hat off to them. At least the citizens of Israel know that their gvt will do anything to protect them. Got to take hats of to them. Look at our gvt. Exact opposite.

 

[kilo39]

The way I remember it every round of violence has been initiated by the Israelis. They usually attack first (whether that be the 6 Day War or firing missiles at passing traffic.) Then militant groups retaliate.

A nation imprisoned
John Pilger: COMMENT

Israel is destroying any notion of a state of Palestine and is imprisoning an entire nation. That is clear from the latest attacks on Gaza.

The attacks, reported on Britain’s Channel 4 News, were “targeting key militants of Hamas” and the “Hamas infrastructure”. The BBC described a “clash” between the same militants and Israeli F-16 aircraft.

In one “clash”, the car of “militants” was blown to pieces by a missile from a fighter-bomber. In my experience, all Gaza’s people are militant in resisting their jailer and tormentor. And the “Hamas infrastructure” was the headquarters of the party that won last year’s democratic elections in Palestine.

“Some say,” said the Channel 4 reporter, that “Hamas has courted this [attack] ...” Perhaps he was referring to the rockets fired at Israel from Gaza, which killed one person. Under international law an occupied people has the right to use arms against the occupier’s forces.

The Channel 4 reporter referred to an “endless war”. There is no war; there is resistance to an enduring, illegal occupation by the world’s fourth largest military power. In the past six years alone, wrote the historian Ilan Pappé, Israeli forces have killed more than 4 000 Palestinians, half of them children.

According to documents obtained by United Press International, the Israelis once secretly funded Hamas as “a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative”, in the words of a former CIA official.

Today, Israel and the US openly back Hamas’s rival, Fatah, with bribes of millions of dollars. Israel recently secretly allowed 500 Fatah fighters to cross into Gaza from Egypt, another American client. The aim is to undermine the elected Palestinian government and ignite a civil war.

In response, the Palestinians forged a unity government of both Hamas and Fatah. The latest attacks aim to destroy this.

The Israeli plan for Palestine, wrote the Palestinian academic Karma Nabulsi, is “a Hobbesian vision of an anarchic society: truncated, violent, powerless, destroyed, cowed, ruled by disparate militias, gangs, religious ideologues and extremists, broken up into ethnic and religious tribalism and co-opted collaborationists. Look to the Iraq of today . . .”

Results: About 1,060,000 for israel breaks ceasefire

Results: About 709,000 for hamas breaks ceasefire

 

[Syndyre]

The way I remember it every round of violence has been initiated by the Israelis. They usually attack first (whether that be the 6 Day War or firing missiles at passing traffic.) Then militant groups retaliate.

What about the initial round of violence in 1948 when the Arab states invaded Israel?

I don't think the number of Google search results proves anything anyway.

 

[kilo39]

What about the initial round of violence in 1948 when the Arab states invaded Israel?

I don't think the number of Google search results proves anything anyway.

Ah 1948? Wasn't that when a UN vote created Israel against the wishes of every arab country and the british themselves (who had any mandate at the time?)

Israel

Notably they have been an army of occupation ever since.

 

[Syndyre]

Ah 1948? Wasn't that when a UN vote created Israel against the wishes of every arab country and the british themselves (who had any mandate at the time?)

Israel

Notably they have been an army of occupation ever since.

So because the Arabs disagreed they were justified in invading?

 

[Syndyre]

Btw is it your contention then that Israel shouldn't exist?

 

[kilo39]

So because the Arabs disagreed they were justified in invading?

I see no justification at any time; least of all 40 or 60 years of 'essentially civil war' with no peace or wish to peace from either side. Whichever way 'the arabs' disagreed with the setting up of Israel, "the terms of that agreement." Their invasion and Israels continued occupation of 'their' territory has simply fueled a fire that rages incessantly. The argument for the 'non-existence' of Israel is not to separate jews from their homeland but to protest the setting up of a separate state which is simply a fuel to sectarianism and violence (exactly how it has been for 60 years.) And ultimately which ever way you look at it, or primarily looking at the maps there is no doubt Israel is way beyond any 'border' agreed in 48 nevermind any 'vowed' disavowal of Israel in the first place.

I notice that the wiki page (Israel) mentions:

A further split occurred when Avraham Stern left the Irgun to form Lehi, (also known as the Stern Gang) which was much more extreme in its methods. Unlike the Irgun, they refused any co-operation with the British during World War II and even attempted to work with the Germans to secure European Jewry's escape to Palestine.

and off the Hamas page:

Indeed Israel supported and encouraged Hamas' early growth in an effort to undermine the secular Fatah movement of Yasser Arafat. According to UPI, Israel supported Hamas starting in the late 1970s as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization".


Off the wiki hamas charter page:
"The Hamas movement is prepared to stop terror against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians ... We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civlilians."

"Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us — our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people."

(which incidentally I notice bears little resemblance to the charter published here.)

I submit (and contend) that Hamas is not wrong and with the actions of America re: Iraq and their contentions re: Iran, and their ties to Al Queyda, even Muslim Brotherhood and the mafia are perpetuating global jihad against the muslims through numerous denied elections, assassinations, false dictators, etc, all of course in support of Israel and the wests hegemony in the middle east; nevermind any call to 9/11 or Dubya Granddaddy ties to Hitler.

Perhaps to a large extent Islam is at war with itself, moderates verse radicals but for sure the wests (primarily england, australia) support of false wars, lies, rendition, torture, secret prisons, dictators, etc, has fostered the radicals in Dubya's Global War of Terror against an enemy they essentially created, and continue to create in the fiasco that is the middle east, most notably patted on the head by Condelisa Rice while continuing to deny democratic elections and raining missiles and assassinations on the population at large "against suspected hamas/militant targets."

Btw is it your contention then that Israel shouldn't exist?

My contention is that the time for lies and bullsh#t is long over. Even the wiki states:

However, on February 13, 2005, Hamas leader Khaled Mashal declared that Hamas would stop armed struggle against Israel if Israel recognized the 1967 borders, withdrew from all Palestinian territories and accept the demand for Palestinian "Right of Return"
-
Hamas does not recognize Israel as a sovereign state, unlike the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), which has recognized it since 1988, and calls it the "Zionist entity", a common hostile term in Arab political rhetoric.

To return to an earlier paragraph:
Indeed Israel supported and encouraged Hamas' early growth in an effort to undermine the secular Fatah movement of Yasser Arafat. According to UPI, Israel supported Hamas starting in the late 1970s as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization".

On that simple reading Israel has never wanted peace (otherwise why undermine the PLO and foster discontent through muslim brotherhood and hamas nevermind any support of counties like Saudi Arabia who 'supposedly' fund these organisations in the first place?)

Furthermore, the French investigative newspaper Le Canard enchaîné stated that Shin Bet had also supported Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO and Fatah, in an attempt to give "a religious slant to the conflict, in order to make the West believe that the conflict was between Jews and Muslims", thus supporting the controversial thesis of a "clash of civilizations".

SO: at this time any claim to the 'non existence' of Israel is patently false and neither the history nor the wiki support it.

I admit (as any neutral observer would) to a lack of understanding re: any non-state of Israel, best explained by this document (admittedly radical but true?)

There are over five million settlers of European origin in South Africa. The Afrikaaner population and those of British descent have lived in South Africa for many generations. Yet very few people, let alone those purporting to be advocates of self-determination for Blacks in South Africa, propose two states - a European white state with guaranteed security alongside a demilitarized African state.

In fact, it is precisely the existence of such an arrangement in the form of the Bantustans in South Africa which has rendered utterly indefensible this cover for the preservation of racist rule.

Similarly, in colonial Algeria and in Northern and Southern Rhodesia, the large European settler populations - many of them descendants of generations of settlers - were not accorded a separate status, let alone a settler state on usurped land of the oppressed.

On the contrary, in South Africa - as in Algeria, Zambia or Zimbabwe - it is understood that self-determination of a colonized people cannot be equated with a settler state. It is sleight of hand to suggest that, having dispossessed the population by force, the settlers now have an equivalent claim to the conquered territory.

If this is universally understood elsewhere, why this indecent exceptionalism when it comes to Israel?
-
The majority wing of the Palestine Liberation Organization, Fatah, set forth the program for the establishment of a "democratic, secular Palestine". This slogan called for the dismantling of the Zionist Israeli state and the establishment of a new state in Palestine in which Jews, Christians, and Arabs would live as equals without discrimination.
The Hidden History of Zionism