Solar Water Heating: An installers viewpoint

P

pietb

Active Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hi

I supply and install solar water heaters and everything else solar in the Port Elisabeth area and surrounding country side.

Just some thoughts and pardon the grammar. Ek is net 'n boertjie.

Depending on the size and type of SWH my mark up on the components are between 15 and 20%. Hardly fireworks. Between the mark up and my installation costs I must survive. The people who make the money is the importers of components - not the local supplier/installer.

With a mark up of 30% the business is dead.

The Eskom subsidy scheme is a joke. In most instances it is cheaper to buy a system without the subsidy than with it. I believe the scheme will change in future.

Solar water heating is not for everyone. If it is too expensive for you then bad luck. Pay Eskom. Most of us would like to drive an expensive German car but not all of us can afford it so we have to do with a ford :p or a Nissan or even a Tata.

I have a client (household of 4) whom reported a saving of 45% or R300 on his electricity account. They switched off the element and regulate their water usage. My personal experience is a saving of 25%. I have since switch off my geyser and will see in a month or 2 what effect that has.

An alarming amount of customers are Eskom employees. Not a huge presentage but still enough for me to notice. A standard remark is" I work for them and see what is going on" they also have generators.

I always ask a client why do they want to install a SWH just to make sure they would not be disappointed with the thing. Previously about 90% of answers were something about the environment/going green/save the planet.
Lately the reason is to save money/getting rid of Eskom.

Installing is not rocket science as some posters have discovered. It is an easy d.i.y. project. Will take you a Saturday and maybe a Sunday morning. Could save you a few rands and you will know how the system work. I have guided a bookkeeper via email and cell through the installation.( the same oke who save R300 per month)

If Eskom increase their tariffs by 20%+ per year your ROI is more than double that of any (?) other investment.

I have the cheaper Flat Plate Heat Collector available (R3000 - R5000 cheaper than a vacuum tube system) but have never installed one of these. People want the more expensive system.

Watch out for the really cheap Chinese stuff.

Planing to go off the grid?

It is possible but if you think installing a solar geyser is expensive forget it.

And installing a solar geyser is the first step. Then insulate all hot water pipes. Geyser blanket - I don't know.

Next is the stove. Cook on gas.

Use solar energy to dry your clothes.

Use chest freezers and fridges. I have a nice plan for how to convert a chest freezes into a fridge. I see you can also buy a chest freezer with an variable thermostat.

Use the hot water from your solar geyser with the washing machine.

Electrical dishwashers are supposed to use less electricity. I have a manual dishwasher using solar heated hot water and no electricity.

Boil the coffee/tea water on the gas stove.

Switch off all electrical appliances when you do not use them.

Lights? Use low wattage globes. Very nice 12v LED lights are available. But remember the German car? Expensive.

When you have done the above do an audit of your electricity needs and then size and cost a alternative energy system for your specific needs.

Solar is modular so you can work out a plan to go off grid in stages.

My weekend has started.

Thanks Eskom!!
 
Last edited:
Interesting post Pietb

In your experience, how long would it take (with current tariffs) for a solar water heating system to pay for itself? There's a lot of confusing info out there, so I'd prefer to hear from someone who works with the stuff.
 
We installed one of the more expensive systems last year (R13000, no subsidies - I agree that the Eskom scheme is not worth the time), and the payback period then worked out to just under 5 year. However, with the current rates and possible hikes, it looks now to closer to 3 years.
 
pietb said:
If Eskom increase their tariffs by 20%+ per year your ROI is more than double that of any (?) other investment.
Click to expand...

On a tax rate of 40% an investment in an RA still gives you the best guaranteed return out of ANY investment.

;)

Your calculation here is slightly flawed though as you stated that on average your total savings are about 25% for the household. So your effective saving would only be 25% of these 20% increases. You would not be eliminating the effect of the increase altogether... but I suppose I am being way too analytical.
 
Thanks for the post Pietb

I will keep in mind as we are wanting to save money/"go off the grid"
 
thx for the post! im looking into solar for our student housing. throwing money at eskom is about as useful as throwing money at a duck. although eskom has stopped sending me bills, so maybe it wont be necessary :)
 
Paulr said:
Interesting post Pietb

In your experience, how long would it take (with current tariffs) for a solar water heating system to pay for itself? There's a lot of confusing info out there, so I'd prefer to hear from someone who works with the stuff.
Click to expand...

Paulr

With our 150L system (installed) and presuming that Eskom will get the 45% increase per year for 3 years and presuming a R100 saving per month the payback period is 48 months. A saving of R150 will result in a payback period of 34 months.

I think the 45% increase is unlikely but a 35% to 40% increase is a possibility.
 
Ta for the info.

From you post I take it your price for a 150l system (installed) is around R4800 - R5100?

Is that so?
 
Paulr said:
Ta for the info.

From you post I take it your price for a 150l system (installed) is around R4800 - R5100?

Is that so?
Click to expand...

R9139. You install yourself.

If you save R100 per month and you install now and let us say it is 6 months before the first 45% increase:

Saving before the increase: 6 months x 100 = R600
Year 1: 45% increase : 12 X 145 =R1740
Year 2: 45% increase: 12 X 210 = R2523
Year 3: 45% increase: 12 X 305 = R3650
Year 4: No increase:D: 12 X 305= R3650

Total savings over the total period (54 months) = R12 163 vs your cost of R9139

One should be able to save at least 25% of your electrical account. Surely 25% will be more than R100?

My apology: I did mention in a previous post the saving at 48 months is an installed system. My above figures presume you install yourself. But even with an installation cost of R2500 payback is less than 54 months with no increase in the last 12 months.

Hope I make sense?
 
Last edited:
Where are these savings figures coming from?

Yes, a geyser does use electricity but surely the larger cost comes from things like the stove and the iron etc. If a solar water heater was used in conjunction with a gas stove then I could imagine 25% savings but would that honestly be the case with just a solar water heater?
 
tau1z said:
what does my 9k get me?
Click to expand...

That you will have to ask your local installers.

I did state in my opening post that I am talking about MY experiences so the costs that I mentioned are MY costs.

I hope that you understand my position. I did not post here to generate business.
 
LancelotSA said:
Where are these savings figures coming from?

Yes, a geyser does use electricity but surely the larger cost comes from things like the stove and the iron etc. If a solar water heater was used in conjunction with a gas stove then I could imagine 25% savings but would that honestly be the case with just a solar water heater?
Click to expand...

From my personal experience. This is from my opening post:

"I have a client (household of 4) whom reported a saving of 45% or R300 on his electricity account. They switched off the element and regulate their water usage. My personal experience is a saving of 25%. I have since switch off my geyser and will see in a month or 2 what effect that has"
 
i found this flyer the other day:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/album.php?albumid=609&pictureid=4273

their system is a lot more than 9k, but sounds interesting if it doesn't have the pump or any electricity requirement etc. what are your thoughts?
their comparisons are against more expensive options - i was thinking that a solar geyser would be around 20-30k, clearly i was wrong.
is this 9k geyser iso / sabs approved?
what kind of warranty does it have?
 
murraybiscuit

Thanks for this. This flyer is typical of the bull that is going around.

The only truth in the whole document is the part about the free sun. everything else is bull.

Maybe he is right about the 44% to 60% increase in tariff as well?

His system is a Close Coupled system. The tubes and storage tank is one unit. Most people prefer a split system with the panels on the roof and the geyser somewhere else.

Nothing wrong with that but people don't like the idea of the geyser on the roof.

Uses no electricity? All modern SWH systems do have a backup electrical element.

My 200L close coupled system cost R10748.

In PE you can buy geyser like the one in the flyer next to the road for R7000.

All my components are approved. The geyser I use have a 10 year warranty and the tubes a 5 year warranty.

LancelotSA

If you want to see real savings read this flyer:D
 
we obtained the 300L tank ,25 vacuum tube solar heater - and sofar our saving has been about 30% per month as we have 4 adults sharing the 300L tank.

temp in the tank yesterday had been 74'c and after all 4 people showering it lowered to about 64'c ..

element only kicks in at scheduled times for duration x if the water temp <50'c

everything is on the roof , no pumps aswell.

in all a great investment altho expensive :)
 
Eskom subsidy scheme

I find in this thread some negative views on Eskom Subsidy scheme. Is there any Govt. website that gives details of this scheme? Are the people airing adverse thoughts on the Scheme really experienced themselves of its no-use or just hearsay?
 
VMO said:
I find in this thread some negative views on Eskom Subsidy scheme. Is there any Govt. website that gives details of this scheme? Are the people airing adverse thoughts on the Scheme really experienced themselves of its no-use or just hearsay?
Click to expand...

As I mentioned in my OP: I am talking of MY experience as an installer/supplier:

The Eskom subsidy scheme is a joke.​

In most cases it is cheaper to install a system that will give you hot water than to install a system that is much more expensive and will give you hot water after the subsidy.

Look at the Eskom web site or Google Eskom DSM. Remember the figures are quite out of date.

PM me if you need figures.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X