TooHotTooHandle
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@Tweak
Please be more specific who you are calling a nab...
Please be more specific who you are calling a nab...
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Solar Water Heating: An installers viewpoint
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Paulr
Senior Member
I'm enjoying the discussions in this thread between people who seem to know what they are talking about. Keep it up. 
kaybeach007
Active Member
Hi TooHotTooHandle
Excellent points you've raised. Let me try and and respond to them.
K brand tanks are locally manufactured in Benoni and mated to an imported collector panel. There are currently no VIABLE collector manufacturers in SA, we are about 18 months from having a locally manufactured collector panel of sufficient quality standards. So there is a carbon footprint, but far smaller than a fully imported system.
Copper requires about 4 times the energy to mine, about 6 times the energy to refine and a host of relatively toxic chemical to refine. So steel is a far lesser evil than copper from an environmental perspective (it's the metallurgical engineer in me speaking). Steel tanks use sacrificial anodes to combat corrosion. We faithfully service and change anodes in geysers manufactured and installed in the 80's and are still going strong, every 3 years we ring up our clients to remind them. Most South Africans don't know that they should change anodes every 2 - 3 years resulting in average geyser lifespans of about 7 years (read that stat somewhere, can't remember where) mainly due to negligence. Bronze and galvanised fittings, copper piping, thermostats and elements all make one big galvanic battery, but if the correct materials are used and installed in the correct sequence (ask old school plumbers about that one
) and change the anodes every three years, tanks will last and last. As far as mass production is concerned, the little factory in Benoni does churn out a fraction of the tanks the boys in China do. I don't like glass fibre tanks, the F brand basically destroyed my faith in them, I'll watch their performance over next few years. I don't believe that they can handle the thermal cycling for long.
All solar geysers are 400kPa systems. The lower pressures will mean less stress on the tanks, besides very few municipalities in SA can supply 6 bar pressure. It's usually your houses in valleys that sit with high pressures like that, majority of towns sit between 3 - 4 bars. It costs money to pump at that pressure.
I don't condone DIY geyser installation, but DIY weekend warriors do it and you cannot stop them, but I like to spell out the consequences to them, so that they aren't dissapointed when the insurance company gives them the finger or they scald the baby to death in its cot.
The industry is in its infancy and there are many flybynights out there, which is why we have to try and keep the public as informed as possible. The number of systems coming out of the East and flying through SABS testing is horrifying. Hence the reason to stick with brands you know. The K brand is no silver bullet, but it is a good solid product with a good solid track record (you don't have a 100 year old company that holds a 60 odd percent market share but selling rubbish), made on our shores. Local is lekker.
I have to just mention that this config does not make Eskom happy
I agree, this is an good discussion. Education is power.
Excellent points you've raised. Let me try and and respond to them.
K brand tanks are locally manufactured in Benoni and mated to an imported collector panel. There are currently no VIABLE collector manufacturers in SA, we are about 18 months from having a locally manufactured collector panel of sufficient quality standards. So there is a carbon footprint, but far smaller than a fully imported system.
Copper requires about 4 times the energy to mine, about 6 times the energy to refine and a host of relatively toxic chemical to refine. So steel is a far lesser evil than copper from an environmental perspective (it's the metallurgical engineer in me speaking). Steel tanks use sacrificial anodes to combat corrosion. We faithfully service and change anodes in geysers manufactured and installed in the 80's and are still going strong, every 3 years we ring up our clients to remind them. Most South Africans don't know that they should change anodes every 2 - 3 years resulting in average geyser lifespans of about 7 years (read that stat somewhere, can't remember where) mainly due to negligence. Bronze and galvanised fittings, copper piping, thermostats and elements all make one big galvanic battery, but if the correct materials are used and installed in the correct sequence (ask old school plumbers about that one
) and change the anodes every three years, tanks will last and last. As far as mass production is concerned, the little factory in Benoni does churn out a fraction of the tanks the boys in China do. I don't like glass fibre tanks, the F brand basically destroyed my faith in them, I'll watch their performance over next few years. I don't believe that they can handle the thermal cycling for long.All solar geysers are 400kPa systems. The lower pressures will mean less stress on the tanks, besides very few municipalities in SA can supply 6 bar pressure. It's usually your houses in valleys that sit with high pressures like that, majority of towns sit between 3 - 4 bars. It costs money to pump at that pressure.
I don't condone DIY geyser installation, but DIY weekend warriors do it and you cannot stop them, but I like to spell out the consequences to them, so that they aren't dissapointed when the insurance company gives them the finger or they scald the baby to death in its cot.
The industry is in its infancy and there are many flybynights out there, which is why we have to try and keep the public as informed as possible. The number of systems coming out of the East and flying through SABS testing is horrifying. Hence the reason to stick with brands you know. The K brand is no silver bullet, but it is a good solid product with a good solid track record (you don't have a 100 year old company that holds a 60 odd percent market share but selling rubbish), made on our shores. Local is lekker.
I have to just mention that this config does not make Eskom happy
and they will refuse to pay the rebate to you. In any configuration with an existing geyser, only one may have an electrical element, either the conventional or solar, not both. Eskom do random inspections, so beware, they'll withold the rebate and pull the installers accreditation. I am not a big fan of prefeed systems, they tend to not be as efficient as a stand alone solar system, because the conventional tanks just don't have the thermal insulation that the solar geysers have. Geyser blankets work, but they have their limits.
I agree, this is an good discussion. Education is power.
I am Penguin
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In PE you can buy geyser like the one in the flyer next to the road for R7000.
Is it not the same system builders are selling too?
I am Penguin
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Can the solar geyser handle the high pressure? Not all can as far as I know. But can the vacuum tubes??
Paulr
Senior Member
The vacuum tubes are not exposed to the direct water pressure. They have their heat pipes that sticks out and goes into a manifold, and that is the only part that is under pressure.
As for the tank (geyser), it depends on the manufacturer and the specs. Low pressure tanks are cheap whereas the high pressure tanks are more expensive (quite logical!)
TooHotTooHandle
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@ kaybeach007
Thanks for the answer. Many of the points you clarified are not right as indicated below:
-the K branded geysers being more environmentally friendly to a copper geyser??!?(which can be repaired, or turned in for scrap metal when done and generally lasting three times longer)
-no local manufacturer making a viable solar collector??! ( please see www.solardome.co.za = they make ultrasonically welded (onto black Chrome selective coated fin) full copper inner collectors with full aluminum outer casings and low iron non-reflective glass to boot)
Maybe give them a call...
Thanks for the answer. Many of the points you clarified are not right as indicated below:
-the K branded geysers being more environmentally friendly to a copper geyser??!?(which can be repaired, or turned in for scrap metal when done and generally lasting three times longer)
-no local manufacturer making a viable solar collector??! ( please see www.solardome.co.za = they make ultrasonically welded (onto black Chrome selective coated fin) full copper inner collectors with full aluminum outer casings and low iron non-reflective glass to boot)
Maybe give them a call...
spiff
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Just a thought & while we on the subject of energy saving, I'm looking for ideas for an electronic temperature / wind speed device to control my solar heated pool. In order for the solar panels (std plastic piping system) to function the pool pump (0.75Kw) needs to be on for at least 7-8hrs per day, however if the wind starts to blow then the panels have a cooling effect! this is not good and I want to prevent this, I'd rather have the pump off than waste energy cooling the pool.
This is how I envisage it should work - if the wind picks up above a set thresh hold, the device, which constantly monitors for any temperature drop between the pool water & the solar panel return pipe. if it detects a drop then it must switch off the pool pump. thus retaining the warm water in the pool, instead of cooling it.
any ideas / thoughts / comments / links ??
spiff
This is how I envisage it should work - if the wind picks up above a set thresh hold, the device, which constantly monitors for any temperature drop between the pool water & the solar panel return pipe. if it detects a drop then it must switch off the pool pump. thus retaining the warm water in the pool, instead of cooling it.
any ideas / thoughts / comments / links ??
spiff
TooHotTooHandle
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@Spiff
It can be done using a "differential thermostat"
This devise measures two (or more) temperature sensors and will enable(trigger) a pump (via a relay/solenoid) when a difference (delta that can be set) is found.
One sensor is located at the pool (preferably on the point where water is taken(the cold feed point) and the other sensor is situated at the exit point (hot return point) of the swimming pool collector.
If you set the "differential controller" to a 6 degree C (delta set point) the pump will only start if the "hot sensor" (at the collector outlet) is higher than 6 degrees from the "cold sensor" measurement.
Many forms and variations of controllers can be gotten that could be digital or solid state.
See this link for: http://solardome.co.za/index.php/Steca/Thermal-Controllers/Steca-STR-1/flypage.tpl.html
Be aware that these controllers are not able to handle the current of your pool pump, and will require a separately triggered solenoid activated switch(most electrical shops carry them)
It can be done using a "differential thermostat"
This devise measures two (or more) temperature sensors and will enable(trigger) a pump (via a relay/solenoid) when a difference (delta that can be set) is found.
One sensor is located at the pool (preferably on the point where water is taken(the cold feed point) and the other sensor is situated at the exit point (hot return point) of the swimming pool collector.
If you set the "differential controller" to a 6 degree C (delta set point) the pump will only start if the "hot sensor" (at the collector outlet) is higher than 6 degrees from the "cold sensor" measurement.
Many forms and variations of controllers can be gotten that could be digital or solid state.
See this link for: http://solardome.co.za/index.php/Steca/Thermal-Controllers/Steca-STR-1/flypage.tpl.html
Be aware that these controllers are not able to handle the current of your pool pump, and will require a separately triggered solenoid activated switch(most electrical shops carry them)
spiff
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great thanks - that' s what I'm looking for. I can set it up to switch a suitable solid state relay for the pump.
kaybeach007
Active Member
Hi TooHotToHandle
As I said before, if you look at the entire value chain of copper, from mining to refining to manufacture, as a metallurgist, trust me copper comes in with a much bigger carbon footprint. (I worked on a mine, spent 4 years studying refining metals and auditted factories that manufactured copper wire (I know just a bit about copper)! The same goes for recycling, you can cut the mining out of the equation, but the refining and manufacture is about the same. Steel = better. Higher yields per ton mined, in other words, less explosives, less diesel (mining and logistics), smaller hole in the ground to fall in afterwards. Refining hardly uses any electricity, simple reduction reaction using coke, generates its own heat for catalyst. Manufacture, because its harder than copper uses a BIT more energy, not much more. All told - copper = big carbon footprint, steel = smaller carbon footprint.
As for repairing high pressure copper geysers, we haven't seen that in a while (I don't want a repaired, high pressure solar geyser). Split the outer shell, cut away the insulation foam, strip away the fancy "glass filled epoxy composite that encapsulates the working components", braze the defect/failure and then reapply the fancy "glass filled epoxy composite that encapsulates the working components" enclose the inner working with the outer shell, weld the outer shell closed and then refill the thing with foam insulation. Then the important bit, you have to x-ray the joint/repair and then pressure test the tank to SABS specification, before it goes back into someones roof. That's about R5 000 repairs on a R5 000 geyser. My Dad used to repair old gravity fed, copper geysers in situ in people's roofs 20 years ago, but not anymore. I would love to see you convince the insurance company that the geyser that burst in the roof and caused R70 000 worth of damage to the carpets, cupboards, ceilings and walls, was actually a repaired unit, but they must still pay out the insurance claim. I know which finger the insurance chappy is going to show you.
Solardome is a good geyser and panel. Price and volume are not where they should be. Remember, I said VIABLE. Solardome cannot supply South Africa with enough collectors. 3 manufacturers are close to setting up greenfields factories manufacturing solar collectors. Big BEE interest etc etc. Then competition drives price down and quality up. Then manufacturers need to get their collectors through SABS testing, then find tank partners to couple their collectors to, then have the tank and collector combinations SABS tested at R100k a pop.
That's a long process that takes a long time. If Solardome can get their collectors mated to other tank brands and SABS approved and on the Eskom accredited list and supply the volumes we use as a group, then well done to them, I will be the first in line to start installing them.
As I said before, if you look at the entire value chain of copper, from mining to refining to manufacture, as a metallurgist, trust me copper comes in with a much bigger carbon footprint. (I worked on a mine, spent 4 years studying refining metals and auditted factories that manufactured copper wire (I know just a bit about copper)! The same goes for recycling, you can cut the mining out of the equation, but the refining and manufacture is about the same. Steel = better. Higher yields per ton mined, in other words, less explosives, less diesel (mining and logistics), smaller hole in the ground to fall in afterwards. Refining hardly uses any electricity, simple reduction reaction using coke, generates its own heat for catalyst. Manufacture, because its harder than copper uses a BIT more energy, not much more. All told - copper = big carbon footprint, steel = smaller carbon footprint.
As for repairing high pressure copper geysers, we haven't seen that in a while (I don't want a repaired, high pressure solar geyser). Split the outer shell, cut away the insulation foam, strip away the fancy "glass filled epoxy composite that encapsulates the working components", braze the defect/failure and then reapply the fancy "glass filled epoxy composite that encapsulates the working components" enclose the inner working with the outer shell, weld the outer shell closed and then refill the thing with foam insulation. Then the important bit, you have to x-ray the joint/repair and then pressure test the tank to SABS specification, before it goes back into someones roof. That's about R5 000 repairs on a R5 000 geyser. My Dad used to repair old gravity fed, copper geysers in situ in people's roofs 20 years ago, but not anymore. I would love to see you convince the insurance company that the geyser that burst in the roof and caused R70 000 worth of damage to the carpets, cupboards, ceilings and walls, was actually a repaired unit, but they must still pay out the insurance claim. I know which finger the insurance chappy is going to show you.
Solardome is a good geyser and panel. Price and volume are not where they should be. Remember, I said VIABLE. Solardome cannot supply South Africa with enough collectors. 3 manufacturers are close to setting up greenfields factories manufacturing solar collectors. Big BEE interest etc etc. Then competition drives price down and quality up. Then manufacturers need to get their collectors through SABS testing, then find tank partners to couple their collectors to, then have the tank and collector combinations SABS tested at R100k a pop.
That's a long process that takes a long time. If Solardome can get their collectors mated to other tank brands and SABS approved and on the Eskom accredited list and supply the volumes we use as a group, then well done to them, I will be the first in line to start installing them.
TooHotTooHandle
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@ Kaybeach007
OK you have me on the energy input to produce copper opposed to steel. But I still feel the extended life cycle, and its recoverability aspect far exceeds any steel cylinder in its total life cycle.
Copper cylinders mostly breaks in such a way that the geyser gets a small tear, unlike steel cylinders. The tear is almost always repairable, and Solardome has repaired many for the insurance companies in this manner. Keep in mind that the repair is easily done within a day at a average cost of between R150-R500 (excluding removal and re-installation costs)
I am a qualified Industrial engineer working @ Solardome.
Solardome can provide large quantities, but why ramp up production to have it standing around.
Solardome has been manufacturing in SA since 1969.
I can go on , but suffice it to say, just watch the press...
P.S. Current production levels exceed 200 collector panels per month (more than the current ESKOM uptake per month)
If companies keep importing, it will only delay the point where SA becomes able to effectively produce and compete against imported products.
OK you have me on the energy input to produce copper opposed to steel. But I still feel the extended life cycle, and its recoverability aspect far exceeds any steel cylinder in its total life cycle.
Copper cylinders mostly breaks in such a way that the geyser gets a small tear, unlike steel cylinders. The tear is almost always repairable, and Solardome has repaired many for the insurance companies in this manner. Keep in mind that the repair is easily done within a day at a average cost of between R150-R500 (excluding removal and re-installation costs)
I am a qualified Industrial engineer working @ Solardome.
Solardome can provide large quantities, but why ramp up production to have it standing around.
Solardome has been manufacturing in SA since 1969.
I can go on , but suffice it to say, just watch the press...
P.S. Current production levels exceed 200 collector panels per month (more than the current ESKOM uptake per month)
If companies keep importing, it will only delay the point where SA becomes able to effectively produce and compete against imported products.
Last edited:
TooHotTooHandle
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@Tweak
Slightly delayed answer, fitting to your delayed brain's answer...
Slightly delayed answer, fitting to your delayed brain's answer...
Damm!!
My friend TooHotTooHandle and myself were hoping for a 30% increase in the Eskom rate
But the good news is that one can still save a lot of money by installing a solar water heater.
Look for an supplier/installer with a good reputation. I will bet my next bottle of whiskey that you will get more than one (new) pamphlet for a cheap solar geyser at the red robot within the next couple of days.
As per previous post: Too cheap and the quality will disappoint you (and the appearance). R30 000 for a 150L or 200L system is way too expensive no matter what subsidy is applicable.
If you get quotes and need another opinion you are welcome to PM me. Will gladly assist.
My friend TooHotTooHandle and myself were hoping for a 30% increase in the Eskom rate
But the good news is that one can still save a lot of money by installing a solar water heater.
Look for an supplier/installer with a good reputation. I will bet my next bottle of whiskey that you will get more than one (new) pamphlet for a cheap solar geyser at the red robot within the next couple of days.
As per previous post: Too cheap and the quality will disappoint you (and the appearance). R30 000 for a 150L or 200L system is way too expensive no matter what subsidy is applicable.
If you get quotes and need another opinion you are welcome to PM me. Will gladly assist.
TooHotTooHandle
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Solar investment
Setting the records straight:
Please know that the information that I write is from my perspective, and I appreciate intelligent but different points of view= keeps one on your toes.
With the above in mind, a forum like this creates a very nice platform for presenting different point of views.
Please do not take any information I send as a personal attack, as I support and value all players in the solar market (although they may sometimes wander...)
The bottom line is that there is always a difference in what is perceived as "good price" as this will always differ between various people (due to education, class, financial status ect.) otherwise we would all be driving TATA.
Find the system that works for your idea of quality, but know that you worked hard for your money and should make a informed decision (don't necessarily go for the cheapest)
Support your local solar company, but make sure that you have a guarantee if things do not go to plan.
Currently a solar system has one of the highest rates of return on your investment.
Therefore you must invest in a solar system that you perceive will lasts(the longer the life expectancy, the better the return)
Respect to Piet and Kaybeach007- keep the information coming
Setting the records straight:
Please know that the information that I write is from my perspective, and I appreciate intelligent but different points of view= keeps one on your toes.
With the above in mind, a forum like this creates a very nice platform for presenting different point of views.
Please do not take any information I send as a personal attack, as I support and value all players in the solar market (although they may sometimes wander...)
The bottom line is that there is always a difference in what is perceived as "good price" as this will always differ between various people (due to education, class, financial status ect.) otherwise we would all be driving TATA.
Find the system that works for your idea of quality, but know that you worked hard for your money and should make a informed decision (don't necessarily go for the cheapest)
Support your local solar company, but make sure that you have a guarantee if things do not go to plan.
Currently a solar system has one of the highest rates of return on your investment.
Therefore you must invest in a solar system that you perceive will lasts(the longer the life expectancy, the better the return)
Respect to Piet and Kaybeach007- keep the information coming
Pieter @ 4 Seasons Solar
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Hi
I supply and install solar water heaters and everything else solar in the Port Elisabeth area and surrounding country side.
Just some thoughts and pardon the grammar. Ek is net 'n boertjie.
Depending on the size and type of SWH my mark up on the components are between 15 and 20%. Hardly fireworks. Between the mark up and my installation costs I must survive. The people who make the money is the importers of components - not the local supplier/installer.
With a mark up of 30% the business is dead.
The Eskom subsidy scheme is a joke. In most instances it is cheaper to buy a system without the subsidy than with it. I believe the scheme will change in future.
Solar water heating is not for everyone. If it is too expensive for you then bad luck. Pay Eskom. Most of us would like to drive an expensive German car but not all of us can afford it so we have to do with a fordor a Nissan or even a Tata.
I have a client (household of 4) whom reported a saving of 45% or R300 on his electricity account. They switched off the element and regulate their water usage. My personal experience is a saving of 25%. I have since switch off my geyser and will see in a month or 2 what effect that has.
An alarming amount of customers are Eskom employees. Not a huge presentage but still enough for me to notice. A standard remark is" I work for them and see what is going on" they also have generators.
I always ask a client why do they want to install a SWH just to make sure they would not be disappointed with the thing. Previously about 90% of answers were something about the environment/going green/save the planet.
Lately the reason is to save money/getting rid of Eskom.
Installing is not rocket science as some posters have discovered. It is an easy d.i.y. project. Will take you a Saturday and maybe a Sunday morning. Could save you a few rands and you will know how the system work. I have guided a bookkeeper via email and cell through the installation.( the same oke who save R300 per month)
If Eskom increase their tariffs by 20%+ per year your ROI is more than double that of any (?) other investment.
I have the cheaper Flat Plate Heat Collector available (R3000 - R5000 cheaper than a vacuum tube system) but have never installed one of these. People want the more expensive system.
Watch out for the really cheap Chinese stuff.
Planing to go off the grid?
It is possible but if you think installing a solar geyser is expensive forget it.
And installing a solar geyser is the first step. Then insulate all hot water pipes. Geyser blanket - I don't know.
Next is the stove. Cook on gas.
Use solar energy to dry your clothes.
Use chest freezers and fridges. I have a nice plan for how to convert a chest freezes into a fridge. I see you can also buy a chest freezer with an variable thermostat.
Use the hot water from your solar geyser with the washing machine.
Electrical dishwashers are supposed to use less electricity. I have a manual dishwasher using solar heated hot water and no electricity.
Boil the coffee/tea water on the gas stove.
Switch off all electrical appliances when you do not use them.
Lights? Use low wattage globes. Very nice 12v LED lights are available. But remember the German car? Expensive.
When you have done the above do an audit of your electricity needs and then size and cost a alternative energy system for your specific needs.
Solar is modular so you can work out a plan to go off grid in stages.
My weekend has started.
Thanks Eskom!!
I could not agree more, we also work on a very small Mark Up and the Installation is mostly what carries us.
On the cheap China Stuff I agree too, some of them say SABS approved, when in fact, only the vacuum tubes are SABS approved, not the geyser.
Solar Water Heating Works Like A Bomb, We had a customer that did not want to install a timer yet, so he switched the Geyser on and off manually, We installed a 150lt system and we switched off the geyser at the DB board, he phoned me two months later on a sunday night to say "We don't have hot water" , needless to say I was worried, so I went out. It turned out they had a bunch of people over on the weekend, and they used up all 200lt of his solar heated water. I checked and saw that the DB board geyser was switched off, at this staged he confessed, "I forgot to switch it on, I have not touched the switch since you installed the system" They went 2(two) months without any electrical backup, without any problems. .
I have honestly heard of people saving 70% on their electricity bill, simply because they altered their lifestyle a bit(with regards to showering times), stopped wasting water(by fitting water saving devices) and INSTALLING SOLAR WATER HEATING.
Pieter @ 4 Seasons Solar
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Again I agree with just about everything said in your thread. I, also spend a lot of time trying to explain the "mechanics" in layman's terms. But its all worth it in the end, Why would you need 65'C water if you reduce the temp to a bath temp of 43-45'C, with cold water anyway. Vacuum tubes is for Europe type weather FULL STOP.
Sure they have better efficiency, but their temps are only use full in industrial usage in SA. Like the textile industry where high (65'C and higher) temps are needed. I have seen them heat water to 95'C easily. Can you imagine opening the tap to wash your hands and having steaming water flow out the tap, a visit to the doc and a few thousand rand for a new geyser is imminent.
Pieter @ 4 Seasons Solar
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Just for the record, I know Exactly who the "K" with its factory in benoni and "F" brands is kaybeach007. And once again guys, I am also in this industry and everything this man said is true. Sure we can buy stuff imported from germany and austria, and pay twice as much for something , than we would buying the stuff made in that factory in benoni . I will not mention where their panels come from , because it might upset the cricket and rugby supporters out theirHi TooHotTooHandle
Excellent points you've raised. Let me try and and respond to them.
K brand tanks are locally manufactured in Benoni and mated to an imported collector panel. There are currently no VIABLE collector manufacturers in SA, we are about 18 months from having a locally manufactured collector panel of sufficient quality standards. So there is a carbon footprint, but far smaller than a fully imported system.
Copper requires about 4 times the energy to mine, about 6 times the energy to refine and a host of relatively toxic chemical to refine. So steel is a far lesser evil than copper from an environmental perspective (it's the metallurgical engineer in me speaking). Steel tanks use sacrificial anodes to combat corrosion. We faithfully service and change anodes in geysers manufactured and installed in the 80's and are still going strong, every 3 years we ring up our clients to remind them. Most South Africans don't know that they should change anodes every 2 - 3 years resulting in average geyser lifespans of about 7 years (read that stat somewhere, can't remember where) mainly due to negligence. Bronze and galvanised fittings, copper piping, thermostats and elements all make one big galvanic battery, but if the correct materials are used and installed in the correct sequence (ask old school plumbers about that one
All solar geysers are 400kPa systems. The lower pressures will mean less stress on the tanks, besides very few municipalities in SA can supply 6 bar pressure. It's usually your houses in valleys that sit with high pressures like that, majority of towns sit between 3 - 4 bars. It costs money to pump at that pressure.
I don't condone DIY geyser installation, but DIY weekend warriors do it and you cannot stop them, but I like to spell out the consequences to them, so that they aren't dissapointed when the insurance company gives them the finger or they scald the baby to death in its cot.
The industry is in its infancy and there are many flybynights out there, which is why we have to try and keep the public as informed as possible. The number of systems coming out of the East and flying through SABS testing is horrifying. Hence the reason to stick with brands you know. The K brand is no silver bullet, but it is a good solid product with a good solid track record (you don't have a 100 year old company that holds a 60 odd percent market share but selling rubbish), made on our shores. Local is lekker.
I have to just mention that this config does not make Eskom happy and they will refuse to pay the rebate to you. In any configuration with an existing geyser, only one may have an electrical element, either the conventional or solar, not both. Eskom do random inspections, so beware, they'll withold the rebate and pull the installers accreditation. I am not a big fan of prefeed systems, they tend to not be as efficient as a stand alone solar system, because the conventional tanks just don't have the thermal insulation that the solar geysers have. Geyser blankets work, but they have their limits.
I agree, this is an good discussion. Education is power.
. BUT its a good solid brand. In my opinion the products is probably worth twice as much as its currently selling for simply because of the ROI you get.( IF they are serviced properly)Pieter @ 4 Seasons Solar
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There is others as well that manufacture in SA, a certain factory also on the outskirts of benoni, make fairly decent panels......But they don't yet compare to imported ones.