Sometimes things are not what they seem

kilo39 said:
My point is exactly pertinent - who elects the gub to set foreign policy? Companies and individuals are way ahead of any government. Congress merely signed off on a program that had been in place for years. When did IBM leave SA - 1979? - By this time individual american sanctions had been in place for years.
No it isn't. While the government may be elected, the people do not set foreign policy. They vote for a party which they think will do what they want. Foreign policy is set mostly by interest groups and lobbyists. And I state again, when we talk about the USA, we're talking about their representative government, so the fact that IBM disinvested in 1979 is neither here nor there (by this time plenty of European countries had economic sanctions, but they are not claiming that they initiated democracy in SA). Trafeye's statement was that the world would be a much worse state if the USA didn't initiate and protect democracies. I just want him to provide me with an example of a democracy that the USA initiated and protected. By his reasoning I could claim that South Africa is responsible for the elections in the DRC, the elections in Burundi, and the democratic evolution of Angola... it is simply not true.

BTW: I'm not saying that Trafeye is necessarily wrong (he may still be able to convince me), but I suspect that he typed faster than his brain could keep up in making the original statement.
 
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Oops sorry arf9999 - didn't realise I was arguing against the argument... I agree - USA gub record on installed democracies is weak if not non-existent... having said that - the "free" world owes much of that freedom to the hawks in washington - unless you would like to argue the cold war was instigated by america.
 
kilo39 said:
Oops sorry arf9999 - didn't realise I was arguing against the argument... I agree - USA gub record on installed democracies is weak if not non-existent... having said that - the "free" world owes much of that freedom to the hawks in washington - unless you would like to argue the cold war was instigated by america.
hey, that is a whole other story :D
 
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