SONA 2021

[ForceFate]

I honestly do not understand the point of BEE, especially in South Africa.

You only have so many whites, indians, chinese and other non-black people, if you actively avoid hiring black people eventually you won't have enough people to run a company with.

But this is the problem, don't build and start new businesses no that's way too much work. Rather just force other businesses to conform to your racist policies and eventually drive them into the ground or better yet, think of some stupid lock down rules, bankrupt companies and thousands loose their jobs in the process.

Let businesses do what they do best, make money, by hiring the best person for the job. Once a business thrives, the community around the business thrives, hell that's how towns like Vanderbijlpark started and was a succesfull town up untill the 2000s and then everything went to ****.

"BEE" vs EE.

Distinct, with different requirements.




Disclaimer: I'm not arguing usefulness or validity of the law. That's open for debate.

 

[ForceFate]

3 Jobs?

How many kids does she have?

3 jobs at places listed pay a pittance.

 

[BeerIsNotGood...]

Over 60% of adults in the 18-29 years old bracket are jobless.

Unemployment nationwide is 31%.

We have a shrinking taxpayer base and only around 15 million registered taxpayers, 9 million of which contribute to around 90% of the tax paid and payable to the Treasury. Out of that money, Treasury currently allocates social grants to more than 19 million people.

Meanwhile, corporations and multinationals in the country are killing it with record revenues, and they're not raising the wages paid to consumers to match inflation. Housing prices are rising beyond inflation and more people are renting every year.

Household debt in South Africa is 72.8% of gross income as of 2019. Millions of people are living on unsecured debt in order to make ends meet and afford school fees, car and house repairs, life-saving chronic medication, and more.

We are already killing the economy by doing nothing to change the current trajectory. The minimum wage paid to skilled and unskilled labour needs to increase meaningfully so that people can participate in the economy, and ensuring that the money winds its way back into treasury.

All that's happening to that money now is that it leaves the country and never returns.

Big business not paying enough?

Lets apply a nationwide uber wage

 

[Supervan II]

Honestly, it's not a lot to ask to double the minimum wage. We already pay our domestic worker and her boyfriend twice the hourly rate, and that's liveable for them. Top-dollar doesn't need to enter into it. Just pay people enough money to survive.


I also use "unskilled labour" as the familiar term, but there's clearly skilled labour being applied in jobs that are "unskilled", and the law allows for employers to get away with paying them more because of it. but it's backbreaking work for money that won't cover medical expenses for injuries on duty.

You have never run a business, it's that obvious.

Wakanda - money for nothing and the chicks for free!

I've seen bricklaying work that's so neat it looks like a proper mason did it,

You do know that bricklaying is a trade, don't you? And that a bricklayer does not a mason make? Hell, even I can lay bricks, but I won't ever be paid a bricklayer's wages, never mind a mason's, no matter how good the finished work looks (thanks to trade unions)!

I know someone who works three jobs, juggling between our local Spur, McDonald's, and a garage-based chicken fast food outlet. Even then, she says it's not enough to save on because she has kids. That's three roughly minimum wage jobs.

IOW: She is keeping two people out of work (as per any labour union)

 

[BeerIsNotGood...]

3 jobs at places listed pay a pittance.

R3000 for 7 hours (only 20 days)

pittance??

 

[ForceFate]

R3000 for 7 hours (only 20 days)

pittance??

There s no way the person work 7 hours at each job per day.

 

[BeerIsNotGood...]

There s no way the person work 7 hours at each job per day.

Exactly..

So she "hops" between jobs and expects to live off that?

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Chickens en Ford Rangers

Eish! Sorry to say Cyril, the million chickens is a myth. One million more might be sold, it does not mean they are delivered ...

SAPA - South African Poultry Association

SAPA - South African Poultry Association

www.sapoultry.co.za

Nulaid Eggs - Nulaid

www.nulaid.co.za

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Bring back trade schools and apprenticeships.

Ooh - OT:
The haters are going to go reach Padda Lesufi levels of hate ...

OPINION | Solidarity's Sol-Tech college opens its doors | News24

This week, a brand new campus for the Sol-Tech vocational college opened in Centurion. This event marks a milestone and it has been met by a positive response. Flip Buys, the chairperson of the Solidarity Movement, explains why the campus was built and what its future plans are.

www.news24.com

/s

 

[Thugscub]

The useless idiots have no clue as to how to manage a country.
Sand sandwiches coming up soon.
Starve ya dumb fks.

 

[John_Phoenix]

Bring back trade schools and apprenticeships.

Why? So the campus can get burnt to the ground, the equipment stolen, and the "students" still learn f@k@ll.

Seriously, line up 20 kids aged 15-18...

5 can do math, 10 have done meth, and the other 5 aspire to get their second child / disease grant by the end of the year.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Why? So the campus can get burnt to the ground, the equipment stolen, and the "students" still learn f@k@ll.

Seriously, line up 20 kids aged 15-18...

5 can do math, 10 have done meth, and the other 5 aspire to get their second child / disease grant by the end of the year.

Reminds me where the idiots started setting things alight, realized - oops, cameras!. They tried forcing their way into the admin area where the sysadmin sits to destroy the recordings. All still on camera. The media was automatically being streamed safely up to the cloud.

Scene two: Identity parade and Shaggy impersonations galore: Wasn't me ... caught red handed ...

 

[CataclysmZA]

You moan about big business then ask for legislation that kills small business. Big business loves laws like BEE, minimum wage, etc. Small business cannot absorb these extra costs.

Again, how does doubling the minimum wage equate to killing small businesses? Come on, show me.

We're talking MINIMUM WAGE here. We're talking about doubling the cleaner's salary, not literally everyone in the company.

3 Jobs?

How many kids does she have?

Two.

Big business not paying enough?

Lets apply a nationwide uber wage

Shem. Come back with a better retort.

You have never run a business, it's that obvious.

Wakanda - money for nothing and the chicks for free!

I run my own computer repair business, actually.

You do know that bricklaying is a trade, don't you? And that a bricklayer does not a mason make? Hell, even I can lay bricks, but I won't ever be paid a bricklayer's wages, never mind a mason's, no matter how good the finished work looks (thanks to trade unions)!

I don't know why you're emphasising the trade point. There is BCAWU, the Building Construction and Allied Worker's Union, but I highly doubt that the men I see hanging around on the side of the road near the township looking for work are unionised. They are paid what basically amounts to slave wages for their effort, and they're happy enough to find anything just to bring in some money.

IOW: She is keeping two people out of work (as per any labour union)

She does what she needs to survive. I will never judge her for making that sacrifice for her kids.

Exactly..

So she "hops" between jobs and expects to live off that?

One job is a position as "manager", which pays more per hour, and she does shifts and picks up extra shifts in the other locations.

 

[John_Phoenix]

You do know that bricklaying is a trade, don't you? And that a bricklayer does not a mason make?

Truer words have not been spoken today. A brickey builds you a skeleton, a mason gives you a complete body of work. I've been lucky enough to see a master mason (and team) renovate an old church, there is no bricklayer on earth that could pull that off.

 

[krycor]

I honestly do not understand the point of BEE, especially in South Africa.

You only have so many whites, indians, chinese and other non-black people, if you actively avoid hiring black people eventually you won't have enough people to run a company with.

But this is the problem, don't build and start new businesses no that's way too much work. Rather just force other businesses to conform to your racist policies and eventually drive them into the ground or better yet, think of some stupid lock down rules, bankrupt companies and thousands loose their jobs in the process.

Let businesses do what they do best, make money, by hiring the best person for the job. Once a business thrives, the community around the business thrives, hell that's how towns like Vanderbijlpark started and was a succesfull town up untill the 2000s and then everything went to ****.

Because 27yrs later the hiring best person for the job isn’t really happening. Seriously. Travel in Cpt from company to company, even certain industries or sectors when government/municipality run, scour their employment resumes and you will often find two things..

1. Skilled labour used inappropriately for a pittance and it makes little sense,
2. Unskilled labour used in a skilled position where it makes little to no sense and the appropriate skilled person is doing something arbitrary. This is usually in office administration or clerical positions but you see it throughout org. Excuse is often lazy, no ambition etc.

And what u find is that racial policy or thought of it in the leadership of the company or organization compounds this on race.

Why I use Cpt? Because it’s where I still see these extremes appearing as common. I’ve only worked and lived in three major metros / cities.

Jhb-Pta megalopolis I’d say you could getaway with hiring the best person for job and as long as diversity is part of company policy(you still need it to be because people are people).. you won’t need to worry about explicitly applying b—bee. One thing I loved about Jhb was people, white black or even green(joking) are always striving to study and do more even when they a laborer or receptionist.. in Cpt it seems people give up.

Why? Because if you look generally in Cpt you only see 1 type of person on top positions. You can go back to many of my posts on what makes social mobility and diversity work or just search of proper studies on it and a major contributor is view on world(from where you work to where you stay). When the view on world excludes your race generally in good positions.. people give up on that as a dream.

Management teams in SA though are unfortunately a tough one to claim transformation particularly in the SME side of things because there is a general lack. This you find is gotten around with most of these not doing business with gov or sa..
Anyway this part of takes time to develop, ie 15-40yrs.. so while it was easier to get away with it in the 90s, it’s exceptionally hard to claim it now. Quite often excuses range from talent pool only being so big but it’s in part opportunity as grooming management takes 5-15yrs of career planning & opportunity and when so few do it.. well u get a tiny talent pool.

Getting back to EE policies, much like every other thing gov does.. it makes sense to be lesser harsh on parts of the economy.. the problem is that in 2021, you will find companies which are harshly opposed to a diversified workforce. These bad actors seem to also have the biggest mouths.. this forum as I keep saying is a great example, and so you kinda go.. **** it, let them suffer. Now if I say that.. what does gov and political elements like eff say.

Wrt “you only have so many x, y and z people” that’s what you’d think right. What I find hilarious lately, like over the last decade, is that the number of incidences where an administration staff screws over the company epically is becoming the norm to find(our decade of fraud and corruption is not just government).

And the part i find funny is that many times it’s where “trust” was given due to the staff member being white. I’ve see. In multinationals(who then proceed to sweep under carpet) or smaller companies(where founder old they just sell up after) and I can’t help but think it’s a brutal lesson to learn when the exec is old especially where they own the company.

Anyway..

 

[krycor]

So part of the many things mentioned was the establishment of a fraud and corruption entity to investigate and tackle everything related in gov.

Cool.. even great but I do hope they makes this entity politically independent. You can’t look past Public Protector and realize that politics should have no fingers in this.

For people who claim PP, NPA, Hawks etc all involved in similar so why spend on this.. it’s different. While those organizations are generalized for other issues.. having their focus solely on fraud & corruption is problematic as it detracts from other parts of their mandate.

So good one.. but proof is in how it’s setup and what role gov has to play with this entity.

 

[Supervan II]

I run my own computer repair business, actually.

Employees?

 

[krycor]

Cyril Ramaphosa’s 1,111 days in power – what has he done?

PresidentRamaphosa delivers his fifth State of the Nation Address on 4 March. What has he achieved in these three years?

www.dailymaverick.co.za

Nice graphics which show CR has managed to achieve very little but I think it is a bit unfair as he also sorted out the NPA, sorted out SARS. Both of those are works in progress. He also tried to sort out the mess that is SSA but there he's failing because he's not making the tough decision to disband and rebuild and he's installed a Zuma supporter as minister.

Somethings are harder with pandemic impact.

The NPA, SARS etc stuff gives me hope, PP needs to be sorted, Zondo and related stuff hangs in the balance partially because his party has a lot of in fighting with a conference coming.

The problem with hope in SA is that it’s short lived.. until SA changes the role of political parties vs administration of gov, ie running of gov institutions from municipalities to SOEs becomes independent of political parties.. I won’t bet on remaining in SA as just from a money pov it makes stability a problem for longer term planning.

 

[Vrotappel]

Again, how does doubling the minimum wage equate to killing small businesses? Come on, show me.

We're talking MINIMUM WAGE here. We're talking about doubling the cleaner's salary, not literally everyone in the company.

So I have a cafe and have one cleaner. When the governmet tells me to double that person's salary it will not affect my business? I even have to explain this to you with a example??

 

[Vrotappel]

Because 27yrs later the hiring best person for the job isn’t really happening. Seriously. Travel in Cpt from company to company, even certain industries or sectors when government/municipality run, scour their employment resumes and you will often find two things..

Just look at every municipality that is falling apart and every SOE that is falling apart and every government dept that is falling apart and all of them fully transformed into **** and you can clearly see that it is not happening.

Even CR last night they will start hiring skilled people. CR so funny.