South Africa's shocking mathematics performance

[system32]

I have worked as a computer programmer for over 36 years - all in commercial environments - municipal, retail and financial - and I have never needed to use any maths beyond the simple operations (+-*/). Sometimes powers and roots for finance. I believe the NEED for pure maths is highly over-rated. The vast majority of careers (say95%) would never need anything beyond what Maths Literacy teaches. It is true that mathematically inclined people are often capable programmers - but that doesn't prove anything.

I've also worked programming for many years after uni.
Definitely made use of some maths over the years.
More so in the early days when libraries were less common.
Did a Data Science & AI course recently, and knowledge of stats & matrix operations is required knowledge.
Most of the math work is done by libraries, but someone needs to develop the libraries.
BSc CS degree requires a lot of maths modules (as with most BSc science degrees).

 

[Geoff.D]

I have worked as a computer programmer for over 36 years - all in commercial environments - municipal, retail and financial - and I have never needed to use any maths beyond the simple operations (+-*/). Sometimes powers and roots for finance. I believe the NEED for pure maths is highly over-rated. The vast majority of careers (say95%) would never need anything beyond what Maths Literacy teaches. It is true that mathematically inclined people are often capable programmers - but that doesn't prove anything.

Actually, you have proved something with your post. No wonder 95% of software developed in SA is so VROT with conceptual and logical errors.
NO ONE should be allowed to even touch a keyboard IF they have not passed Maths at Matric level with a minimum of 75%

 

[Geoff.D]

I actually think math's literacy is a wonderful subject. Most people that did pure maths in school don't know how compound interest etc works, where it is explicitly taught to you in math lit. And a few other real world math need in there. Most people won't be technically inclined and you have to equip them for the real world.



I actually thought it was dictated by the C students, but I agree with you that it felt like it was taught wrong. Put stuff in the sausage machine and get things out. Most math teachers don't even know things that they should - then you get answers like that is what it is - just use this formula.

We used to have THREE different math-oriented courses at schools in this country.

Commercial Arithmetic was focussed on the use of mathematics for anything to do with finances, as part of a course in Bookkeeping. I certainly left Matric fully equipped to do deal with financial matters.
We used to be able to do any financial computation involving investments NPV, compound interest etc, and BTW WITHOUT the aid of a damn Excel SS! The best case would have been a set of mathematical tables in book form. and maybe a slide rule.

Basic Mathematics (Arithmetic) which dealt with 90% of the content now dealt with in Mathematics literacy.

And then Mathemetics as a course required for entrance into any science-related University course.

So, I have NO idea where you come from with this crap about what education used to teach in the really good old days.

But then anyone educated after 1994 had not only to deal with the difficulties of the subject, but also with disastrous changes introduced by the ANC idiots involved at the time.

 

[Moosedrool]

Actually, you have proved something with your post. No wonder 95% of software developed in SA is so VROT with conceptual and logical errors.
NO ONE should be allowed to even touch a keyboard IF they have not passed Maths at Matric level with a minimum of 75%

Sheesh dude. I passed HG math with 63% and finished Mat1 Mat2 calculus in Uni.

 

[Crumbl0x]

Actually, you have proved something with your post. No wonder 95% of software developed in SA is so VROT with conceptual and logical errors.
NO ONE should be allowed to even touch a keyboard IF they have not passed Maths at Matric level with a minimum of 75%

This.

I know to stay far away from programming as I lack the capacity in this nature to be a good one who contributes beneficially to others instead of being a framework hack and slasher rife with Swiss Cheese security holes. Put in context with the lower barrier of entry for these types of work and how many people take it up purely for financial focused ventures alone, it perfectly explains the state we have with many front-ends and infrastructure woes we experience, goverment-related things especially.

 

[Crumbl0x]

Sheesh dude. I passed HG math with 63% and finished Mat1 Mat2 calculus in Uni.

hehe same, I don't know why but I did marginally better in Uni with those subjects than Matric

 

[Moosedrool]

hehe same, I don't know why but I did marginally better in Uni with those subjects than Matric

Better educators.

 

[Ancalagon]

Asian countries: Study harder!
South Africa: Lower the pass mark

 

[Paul Kemp]

Maybe I missed it in these articles but is the number of matric maths distinctions still dropping?

 

[cguy]

I have worked as a computer programmer for over 36 years - all in commercial environments - municipal, retail and financial - and I have never needed to use any maths beyond the simple operations (+-*/). Sometimes powers and roots for finance. I believe the NEED for pure maths is highly over-rated. The vast majority of careers (say95%) would never need anything beyond what Maths Literacy teaches. It is true that mathematically inclined people are often capable programmers - but that doesn't prove anything.

I’ve worked as a programmer for twenty something years (closer to 30 if you consider my academic career), and use advanced maths, and computer science pretty much every day.

There are plenty of programming jobs that don’t require it, and some of these are indeed great jobs, however, those jobs that do have such requirements are more likely to get you higher pay, a better work environment, more work stability, foreign employment, and a more challenging career.

 

[Ancalagon]

At a minimum, programming requires some understanding of boolean logic. Many, but not all, branches of programming require a bit more mathematical understanding. Depending on what you do, you might have to have some understanding of statistics, binary and hexadecimal representation of numbers, calculus, or other fields of mathematics.

But perhaps the real loss of mathematics is that it closes off a wide variety of potential career paths. You can basically forget about anything financial, technical, or scientific. Virtually all of the highest paying career paths have at least basic mathematical proficiency as a requirement. The only exception is perhaps law, but then, studying law is not exactly easy either. Most people who are intelligent enough to pass law will be intelligent enough to pass HG maths (back when it still existed).

 

[Sinbad]

Mathematics? Doesn't that need a name change?

Gqobomatics?

 

[cguy]

Gqobomatics?

This is a qonce in a lifetime opportunity.

 

[ponder]

The only exception is perhaps law, but then, studying law is not exactly easy either.

Law is easy, it's just helluva boring.

 

[noxibox]

What’s going on in the pic here?

Well obviously the correct answer is ABBABBABBA. Or maybe ACDCACDCAC. Depends whether you're after the money, money, money or on a highway to hell.

Maths literacy is not an "alternative" to maths. It's a cop out.

It's a perfectly valid alternative for those who are not mathematically inclined. There's actually no value in forcing a child to endure 12 years of mathematics.

The truly depressing bit being that mathematics is fundamental to logic, rational thinking and problem solving.

Every time this topic comes up someone posts this old canard.

Logic, rational thinking and problem solving are required for mathematics, however the reverse is quite obviously not true.

If you can't teach logic, rational thinking and problem solving without resorting to mathematics then the deficiency is yours, not the student.

Try doing robotics, ML, AI or the other disciplines punted by 4IR, without math.

If you're doing the research and building the tools. Using the tools however does not require much more than very basic knowledge. I know the mathematics used for graphics. But I've never needed to write a library for it, so I've never needed to use it. I know Fourier transforms. But I only care about the output, so I've never had the need to do the calculations myself.

One of the core functions of pure math is to promote abstract thought. You can significantly improve your coding by learning pure mathematics even at undergraduate level. This is also where Applied Math comes in.

Another canard. You can significantly improve your coding by learning language.

Applied mathematics is, well, applied, so it is not pure and certainly not abstract.

Actually, you have proved something with your post. No wonder 95% of software developed in SA is so VROT with conceptual and logical errors.
NO ONE should be allowed to even touch a keyboard IF they have not passed Maths at Matric level with a minimum of 75%

On the contrary I'd look first at the person's achievement in language. Mathematics used to be believed to be important, but that turns out to be wrong.

Software engineering is hugely complex. Bad software happens everywhere and a lot of the time it is driven by financial imperatives rather than any deficiency in the ability of the people making the code.

Avoiding as many conceptual errors as possible will require strong language skills. Mathematics is entirely irrelevant. Mathematics may use logic, but it is certainly required neither to learn nor to use logic. Mathematics only comes into it if the product being developed involves mathematics.

 

[noxibox]

There are plenty of programming jobs that don’t require it, and some of these are indeed great jobs, however, those jobs that do have such requirements are more likely to get you higher pay, a better work environment, more work stability, foreign employment, and a more challenging career.

My experience is exactly the opposite. The business software jobs that required no mathematics paid the best. The jobs that needed mathematics and engineering were usually worse working environments and they paid less. The products were usually much more interesting though.

 

[phoneJunky]

We used to have THREE different math-oriented courses at schools in this country.

Commercial Arithmetic was focussed on the use of mathematics for anything to do with finances, as part of a course in Bookkeeping. I certainly left Matric fully equipped to do deal with financial matters.
We used to be able to do any financial computation involving investments NPV, compound interest etc, and BTW WITHOUT the aid of a damn Excel SS! The best case would have been a set of mathematical tables in book form. and maybe a slide rule.

Basic Mathematics (Arithmetic) which dealt with 90% of the content now dealt with in Mathematics literacy.

And then Mathemetics as a course required for entrance into any science-related University course.

So, I have NO idea where you come from with this crap about what education used to teach in the really good old days.

But then anyone educated after 1994 had not only to deal with the difficulties of the subject, but also with disastrous changes introduced by the ANC idiots involved at the time.

First of all, the country didn't do everything the same. Each province did their own thing until it was standardized somewhere in the 2000s.

My school had 3 math oriented courses - Commercial Math(HG&SG - I think, I didn't take this), Math(HG&SG - this was for University entrance) and additional Math (only HG I think, a somewhat easier version of first year university math). You could only do additional Math if you had Math. The names might be wrong as I am translating from Afrikaans.

You are likely older than me, because I don't know the subject basic mathematics (but even different schools in my town had different subjects).

Is Math Lit easier than math - yes it is, by far. But does a tiler or a plumber really need to know everything in math, I don't think so. Math Lit is sufficient for this person. I also didn't say we didn't do compound interest in Math, I am saying I had to explain compound interest and the fact that if I pay double on my homeloan I will pay it off in 6-7 years instead of 20 (back then). This is people that had math HG and extra math at university level aged 25 to 60 in the 2000/2010s.

More people pass normal math than what can go to university and the people that go to university get close to 80% just to get into some universities.

All I am saying is that I like this subject for people that had now way of getting into university/technicon in the first place because it is a better fit than Math SG that they would have taken if they studied with me. Maybe your basic mathematics is better, but I don't know.

 

[MrGray]

It's a perfectly valid alternative for those who are not mathematically inclined. There's actually no value in forcing a child to endure 12 years of mathematics.

I disagree. You can't just chuck it out because it's too difficult. At least on the old system of lower, standard and higher grade there was some attempt to teach actual maths at different levels. Maths literacy is a joke, and does not achieve anything like actual maths literacy IMHO.

 

[Gatecrasher]

Gqobomatics?

Ah! Of course. It was on the tip of... someone else's tongue.

 

[rustypup]

Every time this topic comes up someone posts this old canard.

Logic, rational thinking and problem solving are required for mathematics, however the reverse is quite obviously not true.

You are correct.

In point of fact, we shouldn't bother teaching students how to learn either. It's difficult and boring. Why instill the skill when we can just.......

Look, I'm not sure what your solution may be but it sounds fun.