Staging bin Laden's "death"

[wayfarer]

wayfarer, question regarding Islam. I don't understand the whole burial at sea thing. A few people on twitter have mentioned that its part of Islam to be buried at sea. Can you confirm this and also the reason for this ?

Burial at sea is alien to Islam, unless the death takes place at sea, and for health reasons the body needs to be thrown overboard, then the well-being of the living takes precedence over what is required for burial of the dead (i.e. in a land grave).

Furthermore, the claim that burial must take place within 24 hours IS AN ABSOLUTE LIE, as not even the fringe sects in Islam hold that view. In Islam, there should be no unnecessary delays in burial, but should there be a need for delay, then this is acceptable (e.g. for forensic examinations in a murder case, or determination of cause of death - and certainly in this case where his death/non-death has serious ramifications globally).

So as with burial at sea, there is no source for the idea of burial within 24 hours, and this certainly is a novel concept. The sons of Saddam Hussein were held by US authorities for 11 days before burial.

Bin Laden was an insult to Islam (and Al Qaeda is an insult too), even though he himself claimed to be a practising Muslim. Because of this claim, and him not contradicting belief in the Islamic concept of God, many Islamic scholars hold that while opposing his criminal madness in every manner, that he still be considered Muslim. For this reason, many scholars have already expressed outrage at this transgression of Islamic rites with the "sea burial". See:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.a06b8d6954f5a1831260ef488b80a425.aa1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/sea-burial-osama-bin-laden

 

[DigitalSoldier]

Oh please

I know of Muslims that celebrated the day those planes flew into the towers.

If Americans enjoy celebrating murder Muslims enjoy committing murder. Just look at the support stoning people get.

What and show The World how they slaughtered a woman and Osama's son as well as another person or two?

The American people enjoy celebrating the murder of people but they just don't want to see too many details, it will dampen their spirits.

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[DigitalSoldier]

From the wiki about burial in islam:

Additionally, if there is a concern about the exhumation and defiling of the body by an enemy, then it should be lowered into the sea in the same fashion.

In either situation, it should not be lowered to a point where it will be consumed immediately

Burial at sea is alien to Islam, unless the death takes place at sea, and for health reasons the body needs to be thrown overboard, then the well-being of the living takes precedence over what is required for burial of the dead (i.e. in a land grave).

Furthermore, the claim that burial must take place within 24 hours IS AN ABSOLUTE LIE, as not even the fringe sects in Islam hold that view. In Islam, there should be no unnecessary delays in burial, but should there be a need for delay, then this is acceptable (e.g. for forensic examinations in a murder case, or determination of cause of death - and certainly in this case where his death/non-death has serious ramifications globally).

So as with burial at sea, there is no source for the idea of burial within 24 hours, and this certainly is a novel concept. The sons of Saddam Hussein were held by US authorities for 11 days before burial.

Bin Laden was an insult to Islam (and Al Qaeda is an insult too), even though he himself claimed to be a practising Muslim. Because of this claim, and him not contradicting belief in the Islamic concept of God, many Islamic scholars hold that while opposing his criminal madness in every manner, that he still be considered Muslim. For this reason, many scholars have already expressed outrage at this transgression of Islamic rites with the "sea burial". See:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.a06b8d6954f5a1831260ef488b80a425.aa1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/sea-burial-osama-bin-laden

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[Arthur]

The whole OBL-is-dead story is a ruse to conceal the fact that they recovered a crashed alien spacecraft, which contains irrefutable proof that Dubya blew up the twin towers to hide the evidence that the 1969 moon langings were faked.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

...... we be having it!

 

[Nothxkbi]

The whole OBL-is-dead story is a ruse to conceal the fact that they recovered a crashed alien spacecraft, which contains irrefutable proof that Dubya blew up the twin towers to hide the evidence that the 1969 moon langings were faked.

What he said ^

...... we be having it!

Hey that looks like OP's office.

 

[Arthur]

We be having it even more!

 

[daveza]

So who lived in this ' strange ' compound without any external comms if it wasn't OBL, and why are his henchmen not telling us how they hadn't seen him for years ?

 

[za1]

obama bin laden..hmmm
osama barack...hmmm

anyone ever see obama and osama in the same room together? I don't think so!

so lets put on our tinfoil hats, get the popcorn and watch this movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-fWEt4zX-g&feature=player_embedded

 

[InTheCube]

Interesting article on this website http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.php

Sorry about the caps but it was the same on the article.

9/11 was a inside job and I think that america will plan something like 9/11 again.

Osama bin Laden: A dead nemesis perpetuated by the US government

ON MAY 1, 2011, JUST MOMENTS BEFORE PRESIDENT OBAMA ANNOUNCED THAT THE US HAD KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN, THE WHATREALLYHAPPENED WEBITE CAME UNDER MASSIVE DISTRIBUTED DENIAL OF SERVICE ATTACK. THIS PAGE, WHICH DOCUMENTS THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN ACTUALLY DIED IN DECEMBER OF 2001, APPEARS TO BE WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE DIDN'T WANT AVAILABLE WHILE THE NEW PROPAGANDA WAS "CATAPULTED FORWARD". IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THIS IS THE OPENING GAMBIT IN A PLAN TO STAGE A "REVENGE" ATTACK FROM "AL QAEDA" ON THE UNITED STATES, WITH WHICH TO JUSTIFY TOTAL WAR ON THE MIDDLE EAST.

Sounds like the US Government was doing some serious SEO on the keywords Osama Bin Laden before their operation was launched. It's all about marketing I guess.

 

[Sherbang]

From the wiki about burial in islam:

Additionally, if there is a concern about the exhumation and defiling of the body by an enemy, then it should be lowered into the sea in the same fashion.

In either situation, it should not be lowered to a point where it will be consumed immediately





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What is the point of this post? What are you trying to say exactly?

 

[wayfarer]

From the wiki about burial in islam:

Additionally, if there is a concern about the exhumation and defiling of the body by an enemy, then it should be lowered into the sea in the same fashion.

In either situation, it should not be lowered to a point where it will be consumed immediately

The exception to the rule that you have quoted from Wikipedia references a Shi'ah source, the sworn enemy of the Salafist-styled Al-Qaeda terrorists. Shi'ah viewpoints are not followed by Sunni Muslims (over 90% of the world's Muslims are Sunni), or by extremist Salafis like bin Laden and his group.

Anyway, that still doesn't adequately justify his sea burial.

As a blogger put it:

"I doubt that Americans took that loophole into concern. That precaution is a rare case of a Muslim authority deliberating burying a body in enemy territory. The point is the odd combination of the speed of the burial, in respect of Muslim law, and the burial at sea, in contradiction to Muslim law. Why choose the quickest, cleanest burial if there's nothing to hide? This is not the first time a Muslim terrorist has been killed, but as far as I know it's the first time one has been disposed of with no evidence within 24 hours in supposed "respect" of the religion which drove him to kill 3,000 Americans."

 

[daveza]

Additionally, if there is a concern about the exhumation and defiling of the body by an enemy, then it should be lowered into the sea in the same fashion.

In either situation, it should not be lowered to a point where it will be consumed immediately

Is this actually from the Quran ?

 

[wayfarer]

Is this actually from the Quran ?

No. Nor is it a viewpoint held by the Muslim majority (Sunni) or by bin Laden's Al-Qaeda extremist Salafi sect. It is a Shi'ah ruling, and refers to death's taking place in enemy territory.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

Read the previous posts. Some people have claimed sea burial to be part of Islamic customs.

From the PD section Wayfarer seems to have a lot of knowledge about Islam, just trying to get some information from him regarding the sea burial.

What is the point of this post? What are you trying to say exactly?

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[daveza]

No. Nor is it a viewpoint held by the Muslim majority (Sunni) or by bin Laden's Al-Qaeda extremist Salafi sect. It is a Shi'ah ruling, and refers to death's taking place in enemy territory.

So there is nothing in the Quran either for or against burial at sea ?

 

[blunomore]

Having only some parts of the picture only confuses people.

If anyone who believes OBL has been dead for a while now (some said he was killed in 2001; others mention 2008) can explain WHY the US would choose not to announce his death when it actually occurred and WHY 1 May was chosen as the date to announce it, then people may give it some positive consideration.

 

[wayfarer]

So there is nothing in the Quran either for or against burial at sea ?

Islamic primary sources (Quran and Hadith), from which Islamic practise is derived, as well as interpretive analyses by classical scholars of these texts, explain in detail how burial should take place. The only exception to land burial is when death takes place at sea. There is no precedent in the primary Islamic sources for burial at sea based on the bin Laden scenario.

 

[wayfarer]

Having only some parts of the picture only confuses people.

If anyone who believes OBL has been dead for a while now (some said he was killed in 2001; others mention 2008) can explain WHY the US would choose not to announce his death when it actually occurred and WHY 1 May was chosen as the date to announce it, then people may give it some positive consideration.

This is explained in the linked articles in the original post. One reason posited is that the US did not want pressure to abandon its exploitation and oppressive adventures in occupied lands at time (for a myriad of reasons contained in a broad spectrum of scholarly articles), and that now, the Obama administration actually feel it in their best interest to leave those lands (also for a myriad of reasons), that this would be a good catalyst.

NOTE: EVEN THOUGH I POSTED THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE AND STARTED THIS THREAD, I do not claim to support either view. Perhaps they killed him as claimed, or perhaps not.

 

[Arthur]

...{snip} I do not claim to support either view. Perhaps they killed him as claimed, or perhaps not.

Any idea what the "haps" in "perhaps" means? And does it have anything to do with fencing?