Still closed

[d-_-b]

1. So it's the South African Government that is the problem and not Open Source? I quote from the article:

Governments that have successfully adopted open source platforms include Brazil, Belgium, states in India, Malaysia, Indonesia, as well as large ministries in the governments of France, Germany, Finland, Spain and other parts of the European Union.

and you stated:

Open source is the dumbest most expensive idea i have ever heard of in goverment....This is a fact

So I just want to state it is not Open Source that is the dumbes most expensive idea ever for Government but the South African Government that is miss using it for its own agenda?

2. Yahoo!. I just wanted to point out there is companies making profit out of open source and your statement that open source is a unprofitable business model is not true.

3. But this is not a problem of Open Source but the people that pushes the political or economic agenda.

4. Maybe I was a bit anal, sorry. But I see your still not using the Firefox spellchecker. If your Afrikaans I can even help you to install the Afrikaans spell checker as well.

5. Sorry I'm lazy at the moment, so I'm not going to google for prices. Give me a hourly price bracket Government is paying for consultants at the moment and I'm sure I will find a open source consultant in the same price bracket.

6. I personally like options and if someone can't convince me with facts I will not buy, and up until this point your opinions only came over as FUD.

7. a Problem with a lot of government employees is that their unmotivated and thus Micro Management is needed. I also don't like it but do you have a better way to manage people that won't work if their not watched over constantly?

8. Well just think about the amount of money that leaves the country to pay for Microsoft Licenses. Where that money could have been used for something more useful.

Finally thanks for elaborating on your point of view, and please don't see this as a personal attack.

Regards,

 

[vxv]

I recently added a new stick of RAM to a friend's computer. Windows died. Eventually I spent 20 minutes and loaded Linux on there, which worked first time, so that they at least have a working PC until I can spend a weekend installing Windows again.

Um... I'd have to say that Linux works better than Windows, and I have plenty of practical experience to back up that statement... Open source FTW

Cool.

 

[vxv]

1. So it's the South African Government that is the problem and not Open Source? I quote from the article:



and you stated:



So I just want to state it is not Open Source that is the dumbes most expensive idea ever for Government but the South African Government that is miss using it for its own agenda?

2. Yahoo!. I just wanted to point out there is companies making profit out of open source and your statement that open source is a unprofitable business model is not true.

3. But this is not a problem of Open Source but the people that pushes the political or economic agenda.

4. Maybe I was a bit anal, sorry. But I see your still not using the Firefox spellchecker. If your Afrikaans I can even help you to install the Afrikaans spell checker as well.

5. Sorry I'm lazy at the moment, so I'm not going to google for prices. Give me a hourly price bracket Government is paying for consultants at the moment and I'm sure I will find a open source consultant in the same price bracket.

6. I personally like options and if someone can't convince me with facts I will not buy, and up until this point your opinions only came over as FUD.

7. a Problem with a lot of government employees is that their unmotivated and thus Micro Management is needed. I also don't like it but do you have a better way to manage people that won't work if their not watched over constantly?

8. Well just think about the amount of money that leaves the country to pay for Microsoft Licenses. Where that money could have been used for something more useful.

Finally thanks for elaborating on your point of view, and please don't see this as a personal attack.

Regards,

I can agree entirely. My context was only SA.

2-I was joking about yahoo. I can agree when you have a strong market presence of supporting interest (open source guru’s). I have just found that that interest is expensive and most of the time company time is spent on enabling yourself rather than the business itself.
3-Agree
4-LOL, I like my IE7, my focus is browsing not the browser. And the spelling, I’m typing in MS word and checking the spelling, what do you see as spelt incorrectly?
5-you will struggle to find a inexpensive black specialist, there are many whites. That I know.
6-LOL.
7-yes, fire them and the micro manager. As soon as you have time to micro manage then you are of no-consequence.
8-I would like to keep the money in this country. Proudly South African, so the fact that it leaves is bad. However MS is plug and play in general, maybe we need to negotiate their prices.

No problem, and I won’t, thanks for entertaining my view.

 

[aquadog]

"Interoperability is important."

This is the key point of the article which you guys seem to miss. In my travels the most productive and efficient setups have been where open source and closed-source implementations were mixed and allowed to do their own thing. Use open-source where you can to cut costs, but more importantly to allow you to do things that proprietary software either does not allow, or which would be seemingly expensive as opposed to it's free counterpart.

The problem comes in, as pointed out by the pro-open-source advocates in this here thread, when proprietary software blocks open-source from interacting with it - the "lock in" mentioned in the article.

People who are serious about keeping their networks as free as possible from vendor lock-in will choose open-source.

 

[d-_-b]

...

4. I never said you spelled something wrong. I'm just doing my normal Open Source sales pitch. After you installed Firefox remember to install Adblock Plus as well.

5. Is that a problem of South African mentally or Open Source? Just last night there was a report on the News where it is showing BEE is failing, but this is off-topic and a over debated topic on the forum.

7. Easier said then done. But I respect your optimistic point of view and seeing you represent a government strategic post, hope you get something done regarding this.

8. If you can get Microsoft products for cheaper why not, but the money will still be leaving South Africa. Also have you tried Ubuntu 8.04, these days its plug and play on most hardware and if it doesn't work it is normally your hardware vendors fault not sticking to standards.

Also install Wine on Ubuntu and try your favourite windows application. But if you want the full GNU/Linux experience get a Dell machine(I don't know if it is available in South Africa yet) with Ubuntu pre installed(Or any machine that is shipped with Ubuntu).

Like aquadog pointed out we my have missed the key point: It is about freedom of choice and most of the time proprietary software tries to lock you in and take that choice away from you.

Regards,

 

[vxv]

"Interoperability is important."

This is the key point of the article which you guys seem to miss. In my travels the most productive and efficient setups have been where open source and closed-source implementations were mixed and allowed to do their own thing. Use open-source where you can to cut costs, but more importantly to allow you to do things that proprietary software either does not allow, or which would be seemingly expensive as opposed to it's free counterpart.

The problem comes in, as pointed out by the pro-open-source advocates in this here thread, when proprietary software blocks open-source from interacting with it - the "lock in" mentioned in the article.

People who are serious about keeping their networks as free as possible from vendor lock-in will choose open-source.

We didn't miss it, it's just between the lines.

I agree, however allot of developments are locked-in some way or another even though they seem open source.

I do however find that allot of open source development cost a fortune just to compete or represent an existing functionality and actually exceeds the initial cost projections (including surpassing the of the shelve product).

 

[vxv]

4. I never said you spelled something wrong. I'm just doing my normal Open Source sales pitch. After you installed Firefox remember to install Adblock Plus as well.

5. Is that a problem of South African mentally or Open Source? Just last night there was a report on the News where it is showing BEE is failing, but this is off-topic and a over debated topic on the forum.

7. Easier said then done. But I respect your optimistic point of view and seeing you represent a government strategic post, hope you get something done regarding this.

8. If you can get Microsoft products for cheaper why not, but the money will still be leaving South Africa. Also have you tried Ubuntu 8.04, these days its plug and play on most hardware and if it doesn't work it is normally your hardware vendors fault not sticking to standards.

Also install Wine on Ubuntu and try your favourite windows application. But if you want the full GNU/Linux experience get a Dell machine(I don't know if it is available in South Africa yet) with Ubuntu pre installed(Or any machine that is shipped with Ubuntu).

Like aquadog pointed out we my have missed the key point: It is about freedom of choice and most of the time proprietary software tries to lock you in and take that choice away from you.

Regards,

4-I see that, I’ll check it out. Maybe chrome as well.
5-http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=135961 , my views are there if you are interested and yes It might just be.
7-Believe me I’m trying, and my head is on a block regularly. But this is fact and I wish we could have more innovative people to channel effective solutions rather than dispersion of funds on their own corrupt agendas.
8-My focus currently is more of strategic customisation to channel financial, policy and project processes rather than off the shelf products. For example, SAP and SPS. What I enjoy from MS is their architects sell and tailor the product, with other solutions you need to find experts most of the time. I enjoy shuttleworth’s approach to operating systems, and hope to have some exposure soon.

The context was still South Africa, and I would rather encourage collaboration on the most used platform than introducing a learning curve when t he objective is the product of government. Maybe a parallel approach could improve the seamless integration rather than replacing it.

 

[vxv]

O and BTW, if you think our government is struggling with funds, you'll be seriously surprised. Most goes to fund personal agenda rather than cost saving of open source solutions.

Your non-open-source kick-backs are always bigger and better than those of open source. That would be close to impossible to beat.

 

[Cadavre777]

I fear nothing is going to get done if the process isn't transparent and phase deadlines aren't kept. At the end of the day, tax payers for forking out for the transformation and I wont be happy if pockets are secretly lined between government officials and software/hardware vendors.

 

[JACOETZEE]

this gmnt of ours gets in a consultant, who gives his little story, amkes the big guns excited. they go plaster their consultant's ideas all over the news. consultant gives them the report in a nice think pile of papers, and with a healthy quotation at the end. Gvmnt eyes boggles, and tells him 'we'll let you know'. and it never happens. Meanwhile, us poor citizens await this new development. no news articles saying that they've canned the idea because they have no money for it. it they pay for it, how will they pay for their S Class Mercedes and half empty mansions? times are tough, people gotta do what they gotta do!

 

[fritzdeelman]

In the long run open source and more specifically the adoption of librè software will stimulate a local software economy that will never be paralleled by MS and their cohorts. So yes the agenda should be a political one, one that benefits South Africans. I do not know what the SA government's political agenda could be (perhaps extracting more bribes from the MS brotherhood?).