'Stop bitching or get out!'

[Nod]

Frankly I had enough of all the moaning and complaining.

Then get out, nobody is forcing you to listen to complaints all day long

 

[habari]

All DA voters probably .

If they're voters then they're South Africans - or do your rights depend on the party you support?

 

[jabulani]

It is the manner in which the DA and FF Plus which represents white interests does it that annoys so many people ... instead of whinging and pointing fingers and blaming the govt why not offer concrete suggestions to HELP the govt or police to combat crime ???.

I guess it is easier to pontificate when the problem is not yours.

We do -

- Employ more police
- Pay them better
- Employ competent senior people
- Be transparent about crime figures and stop hiding them
- Train police properly
- Stop employing relatives and friends
- ... and on and on.

Falls on deaf ears though.

 

[BTTB]

Community Police Forums

I have witnessed some good work at the local Community Police Forum.
The Police participated, represented by the Station Commander of the local Police Station.
The important thing here was the Chairman. He was the gem.
He would invite all the stakeholders from the community to the meetings.
Instead of griping about the issues and leave it at that, he would compile a list of problems and then follow them up.
And when I mean follow them up, he actually goes to the Police Station and is accepted by the Staff and sits down with them on a one on one relationship looking at crime stats and seeing where he can help.
He helps out by being positive and where necessary he may even involve the Council on issues.
This man is one in a million and anyone with crime problems in their community should go witness his style of work and the results he has achieved.

In the past, our area that had only one or two Police Vans available if they were working, has now 12!
We have a new Police Station as well.
We actually have patrols in our area.
Meaning you see Policeman in Police Vans actually doing Sector patrols!

The Chairman has organised so many new things that we would never of even thought possible.

1. Organised with the schools and the parents via written permission to do searches in the local school's for drugs. Successful.
2. Organised that it became possible to do random searches for drugs on members of the public in the streets..
You may not know that it is illegal to do random searches, unless the Police get the Communities permission to do so.
(I witnessed one search the other day. A Police van driving past swerved to the curb and searched two youngsters for drugs.) It was amazing!
3. We had random armed robberies at a local garage and I mentioned this to the Station Commander at the meeting, that the Garage was a problem as it was on the border of their sector and actually fell into a neighbouring Police Station area. Well they said that was not a problem and had meetings with them so that if anything happens again they can send some of the 12 Police Vans they have on their side. Since this happened, no further robberies have taken place.

The process is slow, but only the community can help themselves.

 

[rpm]

Hi folks

I can already anticipate problems here Please keep to the topic and avoid personal attacks or racial slurs.

Thanks and regards,

RPM

 

[Darth Garth]

Then get out, nobody is forcing you to listen to complaints all day long

If only it was limited to this forum and the Intarnet then I could just tune it out like I already do but I have to live and work amongst you in the real world (tm) .

 

[ignacio]

You missed this part of the quote .

What part that quote do you like?! This tirade wasn't very reasonable on the part of the minister and adds nothing to debate ("leave" shouldn't be the de facto solution for anyone who wants change and is questioning the government's tardy and incompetent delivery of it)

"Why don't you hear complaints from township folk?"
Maybe because they are empoverished and powerless, and don't have access to the media the same way richer people do, ya think? Or maybe they have been so abused by crime they have accept it as the norm and have little hope for anything else? Is that how the rest of us should be?

Nqakula said the reason probably was because township residents had been fighting crime for years.
Is this a call for vigilanteism? What on earth is he suggesting here?

"The government you were part of left these people to their own devices when it came to crime.
His first reasonable point - but we can't always be pointing back... it is now his turn to ensure safety and security for ALL Africans.

"Now that you're also on the receiving end of crime, you start complaining.
No - we should be saying - woohoo, getting robbed, raped and murdered is a freaking joy! Let's celebrate crime! Yay for crime!

"That's disgusting!"
Yes - crime in all its forms, against any person, is - as was his over-the-top outburst.

Edit: grammar screw up

 

[pupa]

We do -

- Employ more police
- Pay them better ??? Who the GVT members and higher ranks ????????
- Employ competent senior people Zuma, Kebble...??????
- Be transparent about crime figures and stop hiding them
- Train police properly??????????????
- Stop employing relatives and friends He-HA
- ... and on and on.

Falls on deaf ears though.

Lets add: Increased crime, Increased poverty of the poorest, Denies most in the country proper communications and competent schooling, Made record corruption statistics, Killed public services, Killed competent policing and medical services, Disregarded aids, the prime killer disease in the world, Ala Zuma style, Decreased morals in the country, closed hospitals the list can continue endlessly!

So they failed miserably! on most scores! The proof is in the pudding, Where is the proof on the ground! Ask the poor, ask the suffering, then just do not ask the affluent ANC members in GVT as they have it GOOD!

 

[ant1b0dy]

Hi folks

I can already anticipate problems here Please keep to the topic and avoid personal attacks or racial slurs.

Thanks and regards,

RPM

I do believe rpm possesses psychic powers...

 

[pupa]

What part that quote do you like?! This tirade wasn't very reasonable on the part of the minister and adds nothing to debate ("leave" shouldn't be the de facto solution for anyone who wants change and is questioning the government's tardy and incompetent delivery of it)

"Why don't you hear complaints from township folk?"
Maybe because they are empoverished and powerless, and don't have access to the media the same way richer people do, ya think? Or maybe they have been so abused by crime they have accept it as the norm and have little hope for anything else? Is that how the rest of us should be?

Nqakula said the reason probably was because township residents had been fighting crime for years.
Is this a call for vigilanteism? What on earth is he suggesting here?

"The government you were part of left these people to their own devices when it came to crime.
His first reasonable point - but we can't always be pointing back... it is now his turn to ensure safety and security for ALL Africans.

"Now that you're also on the receiving end of crime, you start complaining.
No - we should be saying - woohoo, getting robbed, raped and murdered is a freaking joy! Let's celebrate crime! Yay for crime!

"That's disgusting!"
Yes - crime in all its forms is against any person - as was his over-the-top outburst.

Well said and stated!

 

[Darth Garth]

We do -

- Employ more police
- Pay them better
- Employ competent senior people
- Be transparent about crime figures and stop hiding them
- Train police properly
- Stop employing relatives and friends
- ... and on and on.

Falls on deaf ears though.

That is being done ... salaries of the lowest ranks have improved and more resources have been allocated to the SAPS ... you might notice that cops don't drive those ugly yellow bakkies anymore but late model Golf's and Corolla's.

In the past the SAPS have never been about fighting crime but rather as a tool of the state to suppress people ... to overcome this culture without drastic disruptive changes (such as firing the whole bloody lot) have been a rather difficult and still ongoing process.

Look at how many high profile cases (Zuma - crime scene interview) have been botched because of basic detective skills that are missing.

 

[icyrus]

I actually FULLY agree with him ... if you are not happy here like then pack your bags and leave this country as the world is a big place and the S.A passport is now acceptable again ..

Frankly I had enough of all the moaning and complaining.

Good reasoning. Lets all just silently tow the line. Don't question, don't complain, just accept that the government is right and you are just a pawn.

You'll have to forgive some of us for having a mind of our own.

 

[ignacio]

That is being done ... salaries of the lowest ranks have improved and more resources have been allocated to the SAPS ... you might notice that cops don't drive those ugly yellow bakkies anymore but late model Golf's and Corolla's.

In the past the SAPS have never been about fighting crime but rather as a tool of the state to suppress people ... to overcome this culture without drastic disruptive changes (such as firing the whole bloody lot) have been a rather difficult and still ongoing process.

Look at how many high profile cases (Zuma - crime scene interview) have been botched because of basic detective skills that are missing.

One remarkable thing is that they are really catching and prosecuting criminals very quickly in some cases - surprisingly quickly - the Goldin/Bloom murderers and Gordon's Bay murderers and rapist were apprehended (and even prosecuted) with amazing speed.
(I will keep quiet about the prospects of these criminals staying off the streets...)

 

[icyrus]

I find it interesting how its ok for a government official to come out and say the equivalent of "we're useless at our jobs and have failed the people we are meant to serve but you have no right to complain so shut the hell up" and not only are there people who are not shocked, but there are actually people who agree with him.

I guess corruption and incompetence is a sought after quality in our leaders...

 

[Darth Garth]

Don't question, don't complain, just accept that the government is right and you are just a pawn.

The problem is that bitching and complaining ALL the time achieves absolutely nothing in the long run except that the other party will simply ignore you after a while.

I am sure the DA get's good press out of it and maybe can increase their share of the vote by 1% next time around but the govt ignores and labels them
as people not worth listening to.

They might have some positive contribution to make but they utterly spoil it in the manner which they approach these things.

 

[neio]

It al comes back to being morally responsible, teach the kids morals and the shame of doing bad things and you will see an improvement, I wonder what ever happened to the Ubuntu movement, the ideals were high but I think it could have worked. Obviously Charlie is refering to the spirit of Ubuntu with his comments, albeit not very clearly. The premise of people being good neighbours is very entrenched in the townships and I think that spirit would not be out of place in the rest of South Africa.

 

[Darth Garth]

One remarkable thing is that they are really catching and prosecuting criminals very quickly in some cases - surprisingly quickly - the Goldin/Bloom murderers and Gordon's Bay murderers and rapist were apprehended (and even prosecuted) with amazing speed.
(I will keep quiet about the prospects of these criminals staying off the streets...)

It all depends on which unit is assigned to the case ... high profile crimes get the best and they are simply more skilled than the ordinary case overloaded detectives at police stations.

 

[Darth Garth]

It al comes back to being morally responsible, teach the kids morals and the shame of doing bad things and you will see an improvement, I wonder what ever happened to the Ubuntu movement, the ideals were high but I think it could have worked. Obviously Charlie is refering to the spirit of Ubuntu with his comments, albeit not very clearly. The premise of people being good neighbours is very entrenched in the townships and I think that spirit would not be out of place in the rest of South Africa.

Good point neio ... it begins at home.

 

[icyrus]

The problem is that bitching and complaining ALL the time achieves absolutely nothing in the long run except that the other party will simply ignore you after a while.

I am sure the DA get's good press out of it and maybe can increase their share of the vote by 1% next time around but the govt ignores and labels them
as people not worth listening to.

They might have some positive contribution to make but they utterly spoil it in the manner which they approach these things.

This shows the mentality of the government doesn't it. People complain because there is something to complain about and its not improving. Crime is not a small problem in SA. If people were complaining about something like "there's not enough sunshine in SA" then there might be reason to dismiss their claims as whining.

 

[icyrus]

Good point neio ... it begins at home.

Sure, thats a good soluition for the future but we need a solution now, not in a generation or two's time.