Struggle songs have a place - U2

[SoulTax]

Yes, I do. I'm not saying that the majority of murderers here aren't black but I know one chap who went off the rails just after high school, ended up in a knife fight and another friend's father shot his mother and then himself.

The problem with your data is that it is near pointless unless added together with tons of other data. By themselves they are not substantial enough to show a trend.

However if you take the real data that is out there and extrapolate it correctly, you will notice that of all the white on white crimes. 80-90% would be accidental/crimes of passion/drunken fights that got out of hand.
If you take all the data of black on black you would notice the same trend to a similar percentage. Many of the murders are crimes of passion. The reason that there are more black deaths is this:
Because whites tend to be more secluded in their suburbs, even from each other, limitting interaction between individuals. It presents less oportunities for whites to get into a situation where they would kill each other over crimes of passion.
Blacks tend to live with less boundaries between them. More people per square kilometre in any given area etc... That simply by laws of chance, provide more opportunities for one black to cross a boundary that causes another to lose control. Blacks get drunk and walk home, often down streets where other blacks are doing the same thing. Whites tend to drive home eliminating that situation. I would argue that blacks die more to drunken violence, even as a percentage per capita than whites do to their own ethnic group by a long shot. Black people have just as much if not more capacity for violence in a drunken state, so that cute comment by someone about white tendancies to get violent when they are drunk is just stupid. All humans have the capacity to get violent while they are drunk

There are any number of things that cause more black on black crimes of passion than white on white. To truly look at the data and Rooster/beezlewhatnot whoever you are, please use that incredibly sharp mind of yours to look at this carefully and take it in. To look at the data correctly you cannot compare apples and pears. Now in this case, apples are targetted crimes, pears are crimes of passion or reduced mental capacity (Basically passion again as the part of your brain that makes you reason things out is being impared thus allowing your animalistic side to have more control over your actions).

Throw out all your pears in your data source. Now look at targetted crimes committed by one racial group against itself, then one racial group against another and visa versa. I think you will easily notice that the percentages are now heavily one sided.

So do us all a favour and actually learn how to analyze data properly. General statistics only go so far. Its the finite statistics that you truly need to look into. Separate the data into groups of causality and then analyze. This is why everyone argues so much about the statistics that you post. You are right that its good to look at the data, but you are highly mistaken in thinking that you are looking at the data objectively and correctly.

 

[Fudzy]

*Rambling on*

Thanks, I know my answer didn't form any part of analytical data as it was an answer to a question not the sum total of all murderers in the country.

Incedentally, I'm not a no phantom nor am related in any way to rooster/beetleguese/etc etc.

Also, who's phantom are you oh insightful one with tiny post count?

 

[Flanders]

...if you take the real data that is out there and extrapolate it correctly, you will notice that of all the white on white crimes. 80-90% would be accidental/crimes of passion/drunken fights that got out of hand.
If you take all the data of black on black you would notice the same trend to a similar percentage. Many of the murders are crimes of passion. The reason that there are more black deaths is this:
Because whites tend to be more secluded in their suburbs, even from each other, limitting interaction between individuals. It presents less oportunities for whites to get into a situation where they would kill each other over crimes of passion.
Blacks tend to live with less boundaries between them. More people per square kilometre in any given area etc... That simply by laws of chance, provide more opportunities for one black to cross a boundary that causes another to lose control. Blacks get drunk and walk home, often down streets where other blacks are doing the same thing. Whites tend to drive home eliminating that situation. I would argue that blacks die more to drunken violence, even as a percentage per capita than whites do to their own ethnic group by a long shot. Black people have just as much if not more capacity for violence in a drunken state, so that cute comment by someone about white tendancies to get violent when they are drunk is just stupid. All humans have the capacity to get violent while they are drunk

There are any number of things that cause more black on black crimes of passion than white on white. To truly look at the data and Rooster/beezlewhatnot whoever you are, please use that incredibly sharp mind of yours to look at this carefully and take it in. To look at the data correctly you cannot compare apples and pears. Now in this case, apples are targetted crimes, pears are crimes of passion or reduced mental capacity (Basically passion again as the part of your brain that makes you reason things out is being impared thus allowing your animalistic side to have more control over your actions).

Throw out all your pears in your data source. Now look at targetted crimes committed by one racial group against itself, then one racial group against another and visa versa. I think you will easily notice that the percentages are now heavily one sided.

So do us all a favour and actually learn how to analyze data properly. General statistics only go so far. Its the finite statistics that you truly need to look into. Separate the data into groups of causality and then analyze. This is why everyone argues so much about the statistics that you post. You are right that its good to look at the data, but you are highly mistaken in thinking that you are looking at the data objectively and correctly.

This.

Can we sticky this for when our fine feathered friend comes back?

 

[Fudzy]

This.

Can we sticky this for when our fine feathered friend comes back?

Agreed, seeing as we have a statistician onboard maybe he could share a bit more of his data. Like the economic situations of both the criminal and the victim.

 

[alloytoo]

So according to Bono, Malema hasn't done anything as he sang the songs amongst his follow not with Afrikaners?

Naturally the song would incite Afrikaaners to kill each other.....best they be spared that.

 

[SoulTax]

Thanks, I know my answer didn't form any part of analytical data as it was an answer to a question not the sum total of all murderers in the country.

Incedentally, I'm not a no phantom nor am related in any way to rooster/beetleguese/etc etc.

Also, who's phantom are you oh insightful one with tiny post count?

Heya Fudzy,

Only really my first line/paragraph of the post was direted at you, I know you knew that it didn't really quanitify any data, but its sort of felt like you were justifying some really niave things that others were saying. That white people kill the majority of white people. I just wanted to make sure that nobody jumped on that dangerous band wagon. The rest kind of evolved from there and was far more of a general post directed at misconceptions around how people analyze statistics etc.... I know you are not this Rooster fellow, I guess that was just a mistaken feeling you got because I was not clear on when my post stopped addressing you and started addressing the general debating public.

Just because I have only recently joined these forums does not mean that I have only recently started thinking or debating about these kinds of things. And no I am nobody's phantom, just a new member directed here by a friend who likes debate. I do tend to ramble on, that is true, but my ramblings are hardly ever directed at one person, so sorry you got that feeling. Ill put an "@General group" somewhere in my posts from now on to avoid confusion.

 

[SoulTax]

Agreed, seeing as we have a statistician onboard maybe he could share a bit more of his data. Like the economic situations of both the criminal and the victim.

It's very true that most criminals are poor, and I think that I validated that at least a little bit with my comments on living in proximity etc although I did not go into full detail, I would think that is fairly obvious to most people... I am in no way saying that things are the way they are because one ethnic group has a higher tendancy for crime than another. It is most certainly their economic situations that influence their penchant for crime far more. But its not crime that is the fear with the kill the boer song, its murder. Targetted murder of a certain people, violent crime. Boer these days does not really mean afrikaaner, it means white farm owner.
The underlying factor here is that if even one person is influenced to kill a person the next time they do crime, instead of simply steal their stuff. Then that is one too many. This song will most certainly cause that, this is the issue. And if someone in the economic position of Malema can harbour such rampant hatred and racism towards white people What could that song's effect have on some guy that never went to school, is high on glue or drunk, and earns less than minimum wage. There is still plenty of hatred out there, this song has to effect someone somewhere.

Bono was misquoted, the sunday times is a douchebag newspaper for causing such stupid turmoil, blah blah. All still boils down to that one person that this song could influence to kill.

 

[Timken]

No.

Firstly other ethinic groups are not "also affected". They are FAR MORE affected.

Not only am I free in this country to express my opinions, but I am out of duty to my own sense of objectivity to report matters as the facts present them. In this case the facts do not support white genocide. Any claims of white genocide are thus bogus until someone can show me new, or better "facts". That's not to say there are not farm murders. Of course they are and many are horrific and shocking and some clearly racially motivated. This is not the same as saying there is a boer genocide. Because the facts is that whites are by far the least affected group of violent crime. If you talk about boer genocide you certainly must then talk about black genocide, or Jamaican genocide, or Columbian genocide etc. You may choose to ignore the facts and this is your right. That is putting your head in the sand though.

Anyone who wishes to supress a person who is only reporting the best known data on a subject is someone who is against truth. How could that be something you could support ? Especially when the lies about boer genocide, intentional or not, only can do harm, incite violence and divide people. With this is mind I reserve my right to express that I have not seen any evidence for boer genocide. If you have please enlighten me.

It would be interesting to see, out of the 1900 white people that got murdered (I think that's the number u quoted) what percentage of them was actually the farmers (boers).

I work with analytical reports everyday, and there are many ways of showing different numbers. Hell I can even create 2 reports for management and an employee, and give them specific facts to do what I need them to do, hiding or twisting facts that just get in the way.

 

[Tpex]

seems like it was just more media BS

Bono lays 'Kill the Boer' furore to rest
Says suggestions he supports controversial lyrics are 'barking mad'
Feb 16, 2011 10:12 PM | By ANDILE NDLOVU
Irish band U2's lead singer, Bono, has called suggestions that he supports the Kill the Boer struggle song "barking mad".

The singer, famous for his humanitarian work, told Johannesburg's Talk Radio 702 presenter Redi Tlhabi yesterday morning that struggle songs could not be ignored but they should be sung appropriately.

Bono said: "You can't pretend they [struggle songs] don't exist, they've become folk music, but it is widely irresponsible and worse than that, to use these songs to stir up more hate."

Afrikaans musician Steve Hofmeyr took offence at reports on Sunday that Bono supported ANC Youth League leader Julius Malema's singing of the struggle song, and threw his tickets to the U2 concert, worth R5000, into the Jukskei River on the eve of U2's concert at Soccer City.

Hofmeyr subsequently "translated" U2's lyrics of their Sunday Bloody Sunday song, and added lines such as: "Kill the Boer, before Sunday, Kill the Boer, before Sunday."

Bono said: "We're famous for songs of non-violence. That anyone can think we are pro this is barking, barking mad."

The Times sent two e-mails to Hofmeyr, as advised by his office assistant, but despite promises to do so he did not respond to our requests for comment.

Bono said that he had written a song, called Breathe, about former president Nelson Mandela. He said it was written "a while ago" but he had forgotten about it until yesterday morning.

"It's a song people have heard the melody for but the lyrics they've never heard. It just came into my mind this morning, probably because the great Nelson Mandela, Madiba, is fragile at the moment ... I wrote it about him."

U2 will perform at another sold-out concert at the Cape Town stadium on Friday. Malian duo Amadou and Mariam, and Arno Carstens' Springbok Nude Girls, will get another chance to impress when they open the show.

Penny Stein, of Penny Stein Promotions, said 70 trucks had arrived in Cape Town on Tuesday and another "claw"- the name given to the band's 360-degree stage - was being constructed.

Stein said: "The claw you saw on Sunday has already been packed and is on its way to Brazil."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/entertainment/article918702.ece/Bono-lays-Kill-the-Boer-furore-to-rest

 

[Kloofvreter]

Hofmeyr subsequently "translated" U2's lyrics of their Sunday Bloody Sunday song, and added lines such as: "Kill the Boer, before Sunday, Kill the Boer, before Sunday."

Steve you ****en idiot! Jesus!

 

[Tpex]

Steve you ****en idiot! Jesus!

I agree, and he makes afriforum look bad, they should disown him.

 

[markforbes]

...Bono was misquoted, the sunday times is a douchebag newspaper for causing such stupid turmoil, blah blah. All still boils down to that one person that this song could influence to kill.

Where did they quote him wrong? Or where did they put words into his mouth?

 

[CHURCHILL]

LOL... At everyone on this thread who got all worked up and stuck up for steve hoff.

 

[Tpex]

Bono should have refused the question till he learnt more about the subject

 

[CHURCHILL]

Bono should have refused the question till he learnt more about the subject

Or the questions being asked to Bono should have stayed on subject, eg: U2 360 tour, and as for the hoff, he should have stuck to being the curtain raiser for blue bull matches.