suicide

Garyvdh said:
sounds like you people want the suicides to go ahead and do it. I don't buy that. There is always another option. Maybe it has a lot to do with education, emotional stability, upbringing, and spiritual values... but I was raised in an environment where I was taught how to ask for help and how to give help. I pity those who did not receive the same benefit. I do still however believe that the act of suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness and cruel retribution.
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It's not that I want them to go ahead but I would like to find one concrete reason why they should stay. I have often come across one sided opinions that are completely valid but for the wrong reasons and I'd like to know that isnt the case here.

I have paddled in the shallow end of depression but I've seen some people being completely devoured by it. I guess I'm just throwing stuff out there to see what takes bait...

Not a problem surely?
 
What if you're a child rapist and you realise you won't ever stop.
Surely choosing to kill yourself, rather than ever commit such an offense again,
couldn't be considered selfish? So I would say suicide isn't always selfish but it could be depending on how many others depend on you...
 
Garyvdh said:
sounds like you people want the suicides to go ahead and do it.
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Quite the contrary considering my 16 year old sister committed suicide not too long ago. While by definition, what she did was selfish, I understand what drove her to that point - and it wasn't long-term depression, and by no means a trivial matter. It was a single incident, and regardless of the support she had from friends, family and professionals, she saw no possibility of leading a happy life thereafter...
 
Point of fact. It does not matter how you feel or what you say about suicide, things or incidents may change your opinion in an instant and you become suicidal yourself, so I would rather refrain from saying anything that could make another even more suicidal.
 
DJK said:
Quite the contrary considering my 16 year old sister committed suicide not too long ago. While by definition, what she did was selfish, I understand what drove her to that point - and it wasn't long-term depression, and by no means a trivial matter. It was a single incident, and regardless of the support she had from friends, family and professionals, she saw no possibility of leading a happy life thereafter...
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My most sincere condolences mate, I'm not even going to pretend to know what it must feel like to lose someone that close.

I am Penguin said:
Point of fact. It does not matter how you feel or what you say about suicide, things or incidents may change your opinion in an instant and you become suicidal yourself, so I would rather refrain from saying anything that could make another even more suicidal.
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+1

People must realize that suicide is not a sign of weakness or self pity. Emo's are that way inclined. This is unfortunately one thread that people should stay well clear of if they have no useful input... as mentioned, the slightest thing could cause a tipping in the scales.
 
I think there is more to it than that.

For a logical, sane person like most, it seems all those things, and it is.

But to the one contemplating it, its not so simple.
Often suicide is the result of deep depression, and depressed people have no logic.
I have had friends dealing with chronic depression and their reasoning is not so simple.
Its worse than a woman's logic I tell you....

The American Indians have a saying:

Don't judge a man until you have walked in his moccasins.
 
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To sum up: anyone who has NEVER suffered depression and who has NEVER lost perspective, is not in a position to judge another human being on whether their actions are selfish.

If you've never been there, do not pretend to know what it is like.
 
well if your life is going nowhere and you just a drain on the people around you is it really selfish?
 
blunomore said:
To sum up: anyone who has NEVER suffered depression and who has NEVER lost perspective, is not in a position to judge another human being on whether their actions are selfish.

If you've never been there, do not pretend to know what it is like.
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ok, so I have actually experienced both at various times in my life to an extent. So I guess then that I am qualified to speak on the issue?
 
Sure I qualify too and my opinion is that accusing a suicide of being selfish is irrelevent and illogical.

Is it selfish of the mother to pop a pill and leave a child behind ?
No, that's extremely desperate.

Selfish is a rich executive who loses money and then offs himself after killing his children and wife.

So selfish that he denies his loved ones life itself - that is selfish.
 
The Depeche Mode song, Try Walking In My Shoes, always comes to mind when people are so judgemental about others they know nothing about or have never found themselves in the same circumstances :mad:

I have no idea what drives people to suicide but I can assure it's not nice, not for anyone involved.
 
blunomore said:
To sum up: anyone who has NEVER suffered depression and who has NEVER lost perspective, is not in a position to judge another human being on whether their actions are selfish.

If you've never been there, do not pretend to know what it is like.
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Mmm yes, I remember how it was ... that was until I got a life :D For me depression is mostly because your just damn lazy and do not want to accept responsibility. Its an easy excuse to be pathetic.

Cause when you see people with real medical depression and/or nervous breakdowns, you change your outlook on life. I got two sister-in-laws that will show how deep the crap barrel is.
 
cbrunsdonza said:
Mmm yes, I remember how it was ... that was until I got a life :D For me depression is mostly because your just damn lazy and do not want to accept responsibility. Its an easy excuse to be pathetic.

Cause when you see people with real medical depression and/or nervous breakdowns, you change your outlook on life. I got two sister-in-laws that will show how deep the crap barrel is.
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Out of curiousity, and this is assuming you aren't a medical proffessional, how does an outsider differentiate between medical depression and
(And this i find to be a truly special comment) a lazy excuse to avoid responsibility?
 
Can suicide ever be justified? Is euthansia a more acceptable form of suicide?

Let's say that you've experienced first hand loved ones suffering the worst hell for ages due to a terminal illness. Friends and family feel the with deep compassion and wish that it would end and then fate hands you the same diagnosis.
Remember that in the modern age, family are spred all over the globe. Is it reasonable to expect to them to travel at great expense to come and watch you suffer and die?

Is it not better to plan an "accident" that will not be too messy and not to forfeit any life assurance?
 
Fact is bad depression can't be cured it can only be contained, since I have family members who suffer from severe depression who have considered it more then once and understanding the causes that lead to it (most of it are totally out of their control) then there is no way it can be selfish or coward less.

Here is a picture of someone who suffers from depression of.
http://www.uni-konstanz.de/ag-moral/lernen/03_neural/fawcett-et-al_2000_brain-depression.jpg

Now tell me how do you "recover" that on your own? I do feel for those who lost love ones due to this illness.
 
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