Sun and wind for SA energy needs

[rpm]

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/General/2254.html

 

[Syndyre]

I'm still not convinced that sun and wind power are suitable for base load generation and it doesn't seem Eskom is either. Nuclear seems the way to go, I don't know why environmentalists have such an issue with it, would they prefer coal? Its the only viable option at the moment that doesn't emit massive amounts of CO2.

I lost the little respect I had for Earthlife Africa when they effectively implied the rolling blackouts were a good thing.

 

[antowan]

I believe more efficient solar panels could bring energy to the individual home. We just need to adjust the way we design our homes. I also think much of the statistics dooming solar comes from Europe where they don't have such abundant sun as we do down here. I think SA are among a couple of countries where personal sourcing of energy is a genuine possibility. If not yet, then soon.

 

[fskmh]

They must've had a wind turbine hooked up to the Polokwane conference tent this weekend, the gauge on poweralert.co.za is green .

 

[Syndyre]

I believe more efficient solar panels could bring energy to the individual home. We just need to adjust the way we design our homes. I also think much of the statistics dooming solar comes from Europe where they don't have such abundant sun as we do down here. I think SA are among a couple of countries where personal sourcing of energy is a genuine possibility. If not yet, then soon.

It could definitely help, anyone heard anything about those new solar panels that were supposed to have been developed? Even with solar panels you'd still need standard power generation as a backup but they could definitely help reduce load on the national grid.

They must've had a wind turbine hooked up to the Polokwane conference tent this weekend, the gauge on poweralert.co.za is green .

If they're going to put wind turbines anywhere they should start with PE.

 

[ambo]

I believe more efficient solar panels could bring energy to the individual home. We just need to adjust the way we design our homes. I also think much of the statistics dooming solar comes from Europe where they don't have such abundant sun as we do down here. I think SA are among a couple of countries where personal sourcing of energy is a genuine possibility. If not yet, then soon.

The point that many environmentalists miss though is that the carbon footprint of the manufacturing process for solar panels is huge. At the current efficiencies - producing the solar panel's entire lifetime worth of electricity using coal produces less CO2 emissions.

That said - I think there is a lot to be said for making more efficient use of the sun beating down on our houses for water heating and even space heating if captured correctly.

 

[bekdik]

AS mentioned above, sun and wind are more useful for local installation and if government is serious in this regard, a tax concession or other subsidy to encourage installation should be provided.

However, the windmill and solar panels used for electricity generation are probably the smallest part of the cost as the generated electricity needs to be stored and converted to a usable household voltage before it can be used.

 

[HavocXphere]

I'm still not convinced that sun and wind power are suitable for base load generation

Thats because people think of solar panels when they hear solar. If they were to implement solar energy projects on a large-ish scale, it would not involve a single solar panel.

A bunch of mirrors heat liquid salt in a central tower. The heat from the salt is transfer to water producing steam which then runs through a normal turbine. No panels involved. I think they are testing a similar system in California atm.

 

[mancombseepgood]

I'm still not convinced that sun and wind power are suitable for base load generation and it doesn't seem Eskom is either. Nuclear seems the way to go, I don't know why environmentalists have such an issue with it, would they prefer coal? Its the only viable option at the moment that doesn't emit massive amounts of CO2.

I lost the little respect I had for Earthlife Africa when they effectively implied the rolling blackouts were a good thing.

It's funny how we all look to Eskom to solve our problems instead of installing our own generation sources. Eskom will never be able to meet the demand with solar / wind generation but you and I can halve our demand by installing these types of systems at home. Now if we all took this seriously, not only would it would have an impact on the countries demand and need for nuclear / coal generation, but we would sit back and smile when Eskom falls over.

As for the blackouts, some folk are actually doing something about supplimenting their own power now that they are having to put up with this issue.

 

[bwana]

It's funny how we all look to Eskom to solve our problems instead of installing our own generation sources.

The whole idea behind public utilities is that we shouldn't have to install anything at home.

 

[general_koffi]

Faced with power cuts stretching into the next decade, South Africa is slowly switching its focus to alternative energy sources

...So that power cuts can be ensured well into the next century?

These people are dreaming. You could blanket the whole of the Northern Cape in horrendously expensive solar energy converting equipment, and you might be able to power Upington some of the time.

Even the basic task of heating water - which solar energy is logically good at - would be unreliable if it relied solely on solar power.

"The big driver for us is the fact that we need to hedge our CO2. You cannot assume that we are going to be in a future where CO2 penalties will not come into play, so we now have to start responding to that."

Rational people need to realise that while the air pollution created by coal energy isn't entirely benign - and neither is the coal extraction process - the paltry amount of carbon dioxide produced by humanity's coal power stations has got nothing to do with the current warming cycle the earth is going through.

And a uranium peak is complete rubbish as well. I can only assume that one predicted in the next century assumes that the demand, and therefore price, of uranium will remain constant. What these people fail to realise is that an increased demand for uranium will result in a price increase, and this will result in previously unfeasible natural reserves becoming feasible to extract. It follows the same logic as the huge crude oil reserves in Canada's tar sands - they've always been there; it's just that it would cost too much to extract relative to the oil price.

Eskom should have been increasing capacity fifteen years ago. They did not, and this is why our grid is now struggling. It has nothing to do with the inferiority of coal or nuclear energy production relative to the white elephants of solar and wind...

 

[ambo]

The whole idea behind public utilities is that we shouldn't have to install anything at home.

There is also the issue of efficiency. The expression 'economies of scale' mind.

Many personal power generation solutions have efficiencies of less than 50% of the equivalent technology deployed on a large scale by the likes of Eskom.

 

[Syndyre]

Thats because people think of solar panels when they hear solar. If they were to implement solar energy projects on a large-ish scale, it would not involve a single solar panel.

A bunch of mirrors heat liquid salt in a central tower. The heat from the salt is transfer to water producing steam which then runs through a normal turbine. No panels involved. I think they are testing a similar system in California atm.

I think it might actually be in productive use in some places like California, remember reading about it years ago. Either way it depends on having sufficient sunshine which isn't suitable for base load generation.

It's funny how we all look to Eskom to solve our problems instead of installing our own generation sources. Eskom will never be able to meet the demand with solar / wind generation but you and I can halve our demand by installing these types of systems at home. Now if we all took this seriously, not only would it would have an impact on the countries demand and need for nuclear / coal generation, but we would sit back and smile when Eskom falls over.

As for the blackouts, some folk are actually doing something about supplimenting their own power now that they are having to put up with this issue.

Eskom should solve our problems, that's what we pay them for and that's the model most of the world uses. Installing solar panels or wind turbines should be a choice, not a necessity.

And a uranium peak is complete rubbish as well. I can only assume that one predicted in the next century assumes that the demand, and therefore price, of uranium will remain constant. What these people fail to realise is that an increased demand for uranium will result in a price increase, and this will result in previously unfeasible natural reserves becoming feasible to extract. It follows the same logic as the huge crude oil reserves in Canada's tar sands - they've always been there; it's just that it would cost too much to extract relative to the oil price.

It is but environmentalists have never let facts get in the way of their theories.

 

[mancombseepgood]

Eskom should solve our problems, that's what we pay them for and that's the model most of the world uses. Installing solar panels or wind turbines should be a choice, not a necessity.

Most of the world isn't corrupt in the energy regard...
oh wait... lol.

I just think we are deluding ourselves when we imagine that Eskom will do that bit that doesn't bring them return on their investment to save our planet. Their aim is to provide as much electricity as possible at the lowest cost possible and that's their mandate from the govt perspective too. Everyone thinks short term - nothing new.
Installing wind turbines and solar panels are a choice.

 

[Syndyre]

Most of the world isn't corrupt in the energy regard...
oh wait... lol.

I just think we are deluding ourselves when we imagine that Eskom will do that bit that doesn't bring them return on their investment to save our planet. Their aim is to provide as much electricity as possible at the lowest cost possible and that's their mandate from the govt perspective too. Everyone thinks short term - nothing new.
Installing wind turbines and solar panels are a choice.

That's not a bad mandate currently, if the government wants them to have a different mandate then it needs to enforce that through legislation. At the moment though considering the rolling blackouts etc. the priority should be providing a constant supply of electricity through whatever means are available, the rest can come later.

 

[mancombseepgood]

The whole idea behind public utilities is that we shouldn't have to install anything at home.

Sure, and if you had the option of installing your own internet at home, would you use Telkom / Government?

 

[mancombseepgood]

That's not a bad mandate currently, if the government wants them to have a different mandate then it needs to enforce that through legislation. At the moment though considering the rolling blackouts etc. the priority should be providing a constant supply of electricity through whatever means are available, the rest can come later.

Everything we do today has an impact tomorrow, the problem lies with people who don't know the real issues making the decisions... not to mention those with their own interests... It's why we are in this eskom soup and why we will likely be in the future... however if theres something you and I can do now to rely on Eskom less, I think that's not a bad thing.

 

[Syndyre]

Sure, and if you had the option of installing your own internet at home, would you use Telkom / Government?

Your own "Internet" wouldn't be much use if it wasn't connected to anything else.

Everything we do today has an impact tomorrow, the problem lies with people who don't know the real issues making the decisions... not to mention those with their own interests...

Obviously but what's your point?

 

[mancombseepgood]

Your own "Internet" wouldn't be much use if it wasn't connected to anything else.

That's irrelevant - you can supply your own power without having the rest of the world online. Don't wait until you have to self provision to have a bath

Obviously but what's your point?

My point is the people who make the decisions are the same ones who make the telecoms decisions - take from that what you will with regards your future.

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=btyfqyv1p8c
R14k for this nice setup...

 

[Syndyre]

That's irrelevant - you can supply your own power without having the rest of the world online. Don't wait until you have to self provision to have a bath

I was just saying it wasn't the best analogy.

My point is the people who make the decisions are the same ones who make the telecoms decisions - take from that what you will with regards your future.

Yeah, we're fscked, I realise that.