Tankadin

Skurm said:
If tanks need 30K HP for heroics then DPS needs to top 3K.
It's lazy to demand that tanks overgear heroics, but people are lazy, and i suppose the biggest lynchpin in a heroic is the tank. You can get by with lousy dps and even lousy heals, but a lousy tank means wipe after wipe after wipe.
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I supose your right. I'll just keep with the 28k HP for the time being till I have the badges gear which sould be adding up both Stamina and Avoidance. Then it will be no problem. I just found it damn frustrating having to spend all that gold to up my stamina when I was perfectly good enough as it at 22k HP.

But it's all old news now aint it :p

I once joined an HC for Nexus, when we arrived the dude asked me if that was my DPS gear. I said no. He responded that it was to low, told him to invite a Druid then if he wants big HP :D

I left the group and they where spamming trade for about 2 hours looking for a Tank .... That made me feel all fuzzy and warm inside :D
 
Pitbull, after reviewing your talent build i would suggest the following, i am not sure on the state of your healers but personally i would not go for divinity simply for the pure fact, that if you drop divinity and go for reckoning you are then able to hit extra after you get hit, extra hit more threat, more agro.

I would also only put 1 in benediction, tanking with seal of righteous and using judgment of wisdom, including all the raid wide buffs for mana, i never find myself mana starved.

i would then put 3 into heart of the crusader, just so you have more chance to do critical strikes, and 2 into vindication to reduce there attack power.

then put the 5 remaining points into seals of the pure, this makes your seals generate more damage and more threat.

as for your glyphs get shield of the righteous reduces its mana cost by 80%, get rid of concescration glyph its useless. Get avenging wrath, reduces hammer of wrath by 50% while avenging wrath is active, also get divine plea, when divine plea is active reduces your damage from all sources by 3%.

As for your head enchant, there is a enchant you get from argent crusade +37 stamina +20 defense, your shoulder enchant can be the pvp one +30stam +15 resilliance, resiliance you can also use to make youreslf crit immune, some guys in my guild do it thou its not my personal preference.

You could do arms man on your gloves +2% threat and 10 parry rating..
your legs can get the +55 stamia if you not short for cash.

Farm AN Hc to get essence of grossmar get rid of your defense trinket, gem for defense, and the essence trinket will give you +111 stam more, or get your jc up to 400+ and you can make the monarch crab trinket and +64 stam +51 +51, remove the stamina from your shield and put defense. If you are defense capped then start gemming stam. Enchant your sword with accuracy if you can, or cant rem the other one, or you could go blade warding its expensive and not worth doing it on that weapon.
 
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Skurm said:
If tanks need 30K HP for heroics then DPS needs to top 3K.
It's lazy to demand that tanks overgear heroics, but people are lazy, and i suppose the biggest lynchpin in a heroic is the tank. You can get by with lousy dps and even lousy heals, but a lousy tank means wipe after wipe after wipe.
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some heroics require tanks to have a decent amount of health. Especially if you are going for achievements.

on ravenholdt some people wouldnt take me to instances if i had 26k health unbuffed.
 
semaphore said:
Pitbull, after reviewing your talent build i would suggest the following, i am not sure on the state of your healers but personally i would not go for divinity simply for the pure fact, that if you drop divinity and go for reckoning you are then able to hit extra after you get hit, extra hit more threat, more agro.

I would also only put 1 in benediction, tanking with seal of righteous and using judgment of wisdom, including all the raid wide buffs for mana, i never find myself mana starved.

i would then put 3 into heart of the crusader, just so you have more chance to do critical strikes, and 2 into vindication to reduce there attack power.

then put the 5 remaining points into seals of the pure, this makes your seals generate more damage and more threat.

as for your glyphs get shield of the righteous reduces its mana cost by 80%, get rid of concescration glyph its useless. Get avenging wrath, reduces hammer of wrath by 50% while avenging wrath is active, also get divine plea, when divine plea is active reduces your damage from all sources by 3%.

As for your head enchant, there is a enchant you get from argent crusade +37 stamina +20 defense, your shoulder enchant can be the pvp one +30stam +15 resilliance, resiliance you can also use to make youreslf crit immune, some guys in my guild do it thou its not my personal preference.

You could do arms man on your gloves +2% threat and 10 parry rating..
your legs can get the +55 stamia if you not short for cash.

Farm AN Hc to get essence of grossmar get rid of your defense trinket, gem for defense, and the essence trinket will give you +111 stam more, or get your jc up to 400+ and you can make the monarch crab trinket and +64 stam +51 +51, remove the stamina from your shield and put defense. If you are defense capped then start gemming stam. Enchant your sword with accuracy if you can, or cant rem the other one, or you could go blade warding its expensive and not worth doing it on that weapon.
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Now this is the kind of advice I was looking for :)

Epic advice mate thanx. Currently as it is standing it's just to get me through the Heroics for badges. Most of the gear will be replaced, but it gives me something to work towards.

Do you have a link to the Talent build you are suggesting? I'll go do it today and try it :)
 
you can take a look at my talent build its pretty much the same.

last night we where doing thorim and i was in the arena and i was doing about 4500 dps as a prot paladin, obviously with raid buffs. I find myself doing tons of damage so much so that the main tank at that point was losing agro because of my threat, so i had to kill righteous fury. So the build is nice, i miss running faster, but at the sacrifice of doing more dmg and threat, its a no brainer really.

If you farm badges you can replace, your hands, pants, head, chest, neck piece, if you do dailies and get 35 badges you can go for the clutch of fortification.

just farm the **** outa AN i been doing it for 3 weeks, no drop hate that instance but its a faceroll now.


http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=eu.ravenholdt.wintermute#talents
 
d3th_n1gG4 said:
Mongoose is still a very viable tanking enchant as well and is rather cheap compared to some of the others, the proc gives you a nice chunk of regular extra dodge as well as crit
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Its not worth it, as the proc is not constant, blade warding will give you parry and i've had it stack 4 times so far giving must just around 800 or so parry, and the enchant has been fixed since it was released so its uptime is more consistent. Thou mongoose looks hot:P
 
also pitbull get revered with wrymcrest accord and you can get.. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44198, but if you just do toc every day you can easily replace alot of your gear, also start working on your sons of hodir rep to get the shoulder enchant
 
Skurm said:
If tanks need 30K HP for heroics then DPS needs to top 3K.
It's lazy to demand that tanks overgear heroics, but people are lazy, and i suppose the biggest lynchpin in a heroic is the tank. You can get by with lousy dps and even lousy heals, but a lousy tank means wipe after wipe after wipe.
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Precisly why I stopped doing pugs. Sad really. Limiting myself to the slackers in my guild :D
 
semaphore said:
Its not worth it, as the proc is not constant, blade warding will give you parry and i've had it stack 4 times so far giving must just around 800 or so parry, and the enchant has been fixed since it was released so its uptime is more consistent. Thou mongoose looks hot:P
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Never really had an issue with the 1.2ppm rate of it. When I eventually get Titanguard or similar I will blade ward it, but for now my blades are quite happy with mongoose on ;)
 
semaphore said:
Pitbull, after reviewing your talent build i would suggest the following, i am not sure on the state of your healers but personally i would not go for divinity simply for the pure fact, that if you drop divinity and go for reckoning you are then able to hit extra after you get hit, extra hit more threat, more agro.

I would also only put 1 in benediction, tanking with seal of righteous and using judgment of wisdom, including all the raid wide buffs for mana, i never find myself mana starved.

i would then put 3 into heart of the crusader, just so you have more chance to do critical strikes, and 2 into vindication to reduce there attack power.

then put the 5 remaining points into seals of the pure, this makes your seals generate more damage and more threat.

as for your glyphs get shield of the righteous reduces its mana cost by 80%, get rid of concescration glyph its useless. Get avenging wrath, reduces hammer of wrath by 50% while avenging wrath is active, also get divine plea, when divine plea is active reduces your damage from all sources by 3%.

As for your head enchant, there is a enchant you get from argent crusade +37 stamina +20 defense, your shoulder enchant can be the pvp one +30stam +15 resilliance, resiliance you can also use to make youreslf crit immune, some guys in my guild do it thou its not my personal preference.

You could do arms man on your gloves +2% threat and 10 parry rating..
your legs can get the +55 stamia if you not short for cash.

Farm AN Hc to get essence of grossmar get rid of your defense trinket, gem for defense, and the essence trinket will give you +111 stam more, or get your jc up to 400+ and you can make the monarch crab trinket and +64 stam +51 +51, remove the stamina from your shield and put defense. If you are defense capped then start gemming stam. Enchant your sword with accuracy if you can, or cant rem the other one, or you could go blade warding its expensive and not worth doing it on that weapon.
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Im sorry, but most of this is terrible advice...

I used to roll with a prot pala for a very long time, Ill give you what knowledge i have and most of it contradicts what Semaphore has stated here unfortunately

semaphore said:
I would also only put 1 in benediction, tanking with seal of righteous and using judgment of wisdom, including all the raid wide buffs for mana, i never find myself mana starved.
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Never ever spec into benediction as prot. If your running out of mana on pulls either you dont have device plea up or your not pulling enough mobs. Benediction is NOT a tanking talent. Its a better option to either go into Improved Blessing of might or Improved Judgements(Which is moot if your using the 696 rotation, which you should be trying to use whenever you can)

Tanking with SoR and Judging wisdom is how i do it too

semaphore said:
i would then put 3 into heart of the crusader, just so you have more chance to do critical strikes, and 2 into vindication to reduce there attack power.
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3 Points in HotC is fine depeding on the talent build your going for but NEVER EVER spec into Vindication as Prot, All bosses are immune to this effect and its a total waste of points. If your deciding on going that deep into the ret tree Conviction is a much much better choice and opens up Crusade if your going for this high/Spikey TPS build

semaphore said:
as for your glyphs get shield of the righteous reduces its mana cost by 80%, get rid of concescration glyph its useless. Get avenging wrath, reduces hammer of wrath by 50% while avenging wrath is active, also get divine plea, when divine plea is active reduces your damage from all sources by 3%.
Click to expand...

This is what scares me the most. These glyph choices dont make any sence
Dont glyph Sheild of the Righteous. Its a pvp glyph and even then its debateable

The Avenging Wrath glyph is a Ret glyph, not prot.
Devine Plea glyph is a good choice. I would almost say its the only required Glyph

Good glyph choices are.
Devine Plea as stated.
Seal of Vengance (10 expertise, NOT expertise rating, Really nice glyph. Especailly for those bosses capable of parry gibbing you)
Glyph of Judgement(10% more damage from your judgements)

Sorry semaphore, This is not a go at you bro. But most of your decisions here would make most pally tanks cry

Also i see some people recomending Reckoning, Dont do it. Not worth the points. See parry gib

The talent build i currently use is 0/55/18. Its a spikey threat build thats really nice for Heroics and Raiding. Ive done 11k tps on Patchwerk the last time i tanked him( This is hit/exp capped though)

If you wanna check my pala out you can look it up on the armory
Char name is Ital. Im pretty sure ive logged out in my healing gear but you can still check my spec.

Look im not claiming to know everything or even alot about prot tanking. I stopped tanking a while ago in raids when i changed my main to hunter. But during the time i used to tank i did learn quite a bit

My personal favourite source of info was maintankadin.com
Use this is info, Dont use it. Your choice :)
 
Firstly, i would say glyph of judgement is more a retribution item. Yes it does more damage, but seals of the pure not similar?

Seal of vegenance might be an option, but i dont see how 80% less mana is pvp rated item? its not. less mana comsumption less time to wait if you become mana starved which you will in endurance fights.

agreed benediction is not a tanking talent, but it reduces the cost of spells moderatly.

http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=eu.bronze-dragonflight.consecrate#talents

take a look at that build.. 4 in benediction:) *screams in horror*.

i find my build and glyph choice fine, i gain burst threat very fast and surpass everyone else.

No offense taken from your post.

i will try your glyph choice tonight and build to see how it pans out in our thorim hard mode. Will let you know tommorow
 
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Vindication used to reduce stats it now reduces attack power, which applies to the boss with other debuff mechanics, thou i think improving demo shout might negate the vindication debuff.
 
Please keep this updated semaphore and blunt as to what your experience with different builds and glyphs are. Just ding'd 80 on my pally and would like to go into tanking.
 
Spawn-X said:
Please keep this updated semaphore and blunt as to what your experience with different builds and glyphs are. Just ding'd 80 on my pally and would like to go into tanking.
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i will try out blunts suggestions tonight and bring back some recount logs
 
Spawn-X said:
Please keep this updated semaphore and blunt as to what your experience with different builds and glyphs are. Just ding'd 80 on my pally and would like to go into tanking.
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OMS !

It's brilliant, but getting geared so you can start raiding is a bitch. I nearly gave but, but it's well worth it :) Stick it out mate it only gets better
 
semaphore said:
Firstly, i would say glyph of judgement is more a retribution item. Yes it does more damage, but seals of the pure not similar?

Seal of vegenance might be an option, but i dont see how 80% less mana is pvp rated item? its not. less mana comsumption less time to wait if you become mana starved which you will in endurance fights.

agreed benediction is not a tanking talent, but it reduces the cost of spells moderatly.

http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=eu.bronze-dragonflight.consecrate#talents

take a look at that build.. 4 in benediction:) *screams in horror*.

i find my build and glyph choice fine, i gain burst threat very fast and surpass everyone else.

No offense taken from your post.

i will try your glyph choice tonight and build to see how it pans out in our thorim hard mode. Will let you know tommorow
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Well, lets just say you should never be running oom with a raid boss hitting you. Never. They hit hard enough for your blue rage bar to be close to full all the time even with the 696 rotation. And with the change to devine plea. Im almost always 100% mana when fighting raid bosses. and thats with 1 point in Spiritual Attunement, However i do use Blessing on Sanc instead of Kings if i dont have the option of using both for the 3% extra damage reduction and mana returns(Glyph of Devine Plea stacks with this btw, Which is why its so great)

Your threat will be fine even with the glyph choices ive stated, Prolly even better. The reason why Prot palas have the best TPS atm is because 90% of the treat we produce is holy damage and is not affected by armor values

Its too high atm, And blizz have noticed this and has effetively nerfed it by 5% in the new patch, I still reckon palas will have the highest single target TPS around, but i guess thats to be seen.

edit:

Oh and about the glyph of judgement, Its ok. Theres no real required glyphs as prot except the devine plea one. Theres a few choices here depending on your role. I like Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous for heroics and some fights etc etc
 
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Dualspec ftw.

If you don't get a group as a tank because of your HP, join another as DPS and gain badges that way so gear up for tanking. Well that is what I am planning on doing once I get to 90 on my pala.
 
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