Telkom Internet Capped/Uncapped User Feedback (Pt2)

[Foxhound5366]

Do not confuse uncapped with unlimited, those are two totally different concepts.

Can you elaborate, I don't know the technical difference. As a regular consumer, I'm just applying common-sense supply-and-demand logic to this.

We all know that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Somebody is paying for all uncapped data, and usually it is the poor low-use schmucks subsidising the heavy-weight users (you can bet the ISP never loses).

If we can have more transparency and more parity between all user groups, that can only be positive.

 

[MickeyD]

Can you elaborate, I don't know the technical difference. As a regular consumer, I'm just applying common-sense supply-and-demand logic to this.

We all know that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Somebody is paying for all uncapped data, and usually it is the poor low-use schmucks subsidising the heavy-weight users (you can bet the ISP never loses).

If we can have more transparency and more parity between all user groups, that can only be positive.

To protect the "low-use schmucks" all ISPs have a Fair Use Policy (FUP) or Acceptable Use Policy (AUP).

Effectively they set limits based on different factors and will throttle or shape the "heavy-weight users" after a certain (undisclosed) data limit has been reached. Other users will not be affected by this and will continue to receive the same quality of service.

The contentious issues that you will encounter all over MyBB, is the way in which the different ISPs implement their own FUP/AUPs.

 

[Foxhound5366]

To protect the "low-use schmucks" all ISPs have a Fair Use Policy (FUP) or Acceptable Use Policy (AUP).

Effectively they set limits based on different factors and will throttle or shape the "heavy-weight users" after a certain (undisclosed) data limit has been reached. Other users will not be affected by this and will continue to receive the same quality of service.

The contentious issues that you will encounter all over MyBB, is the way in which the different ISPs implement their own FUP/AUPs.

That I understand MickeyD, so why don't you feel that a system of different tiers of 'uncapped' (with different FUP attached accordingly) is a better idea than a 'one-size fits all' approach?

 

[MickeyD]

That I understand MickeyD, so why don't you feel that a system of different tiers of 'uncapped' (with different FUP attached accordingly) is a better idea than a 'one-size fits all' approach?

Because I do not believe in uncapped products....

It must either be UNLIMITED or CAPPED.

Unlimited is unrealistic in our current setup, so I'll go for a product basket of many different capped products ranging from 1GB to 1TB.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Because I do not believe in uncapped products....

It must either be UNLIMITED or CAPPED.

Unlimited is unrealistic in our current setup, so I'll go for a product basket of many different capped products ranging from 1GB to 1TB.

The problem with caps is how much is enough?

If you under-utilise your cap you're over-paying, and if your cap isn't high enough then you're stressed about being over-charged once you run out of it.

Maybe after a few months users can get a feel of their 'normal' usage patterns, but as you've seen here Telkom has previously been unwilling to be fully transparent about even that (the SAIX tool isn't common knowledge and Telkom's titracker has no figures once you go uncapped).

It's all still a learning curve, for all parties, putting the developing into developing country.

 

[MickeyD]

The problem with caps is how much is enough?

If you under-utilise your cap you're over-paying, and if your cap isn't high enough then you're stressed about being over-charged once you run out of it.

Maybe after a few months users can get a feel of their 'normal' usage patterns, but as you've seen here Telkom has previously been unwilling to be fully transparent about even that (the SAIX tool isn't common knowledge and Telkom's titracker has no figures once you go uncapped).

It's all still a learning curve, for all parties, putting the developing into developing country.

The old TiTracker had an option where you received a daily email detailing your usage.

 

[Keeper]

We don't block any ports or protocols at present. I haven't played with any of the crypto-currencies yet (seems too much like a pyramid scheme) myself ...

You guys are definitely blocking SOMETHING because I can't sync my bitcoin wallet either.
I've been on many, many different ISPs and none of them have this problem other than telkom.

I understand not everyone is tech savvy and with the times, and you may still think it is some kind of "scheme" or whatever but you guys have to unblock the bitcoin protocol.
Some of us are using bitcoin as a payment gateway, legitimately paying for many, many things.
I alone use it for Steam games, Web Hosting, NNTP Servers, indexers, Takealot shopping, or just cashing out to FNB/etc..

Get with the times and unblock it man, we are paying for this little service called "The internet"

FYI, Bitcoin is a lot more transparent than fiat currency, gets created at a predictable rate, has no fee's or hidden charges, payments can't be stopped by "bad actors", accounts cannot be frozen, personal info is never sent when paying, transfers are instant, and inter-continental transfers are open, free, and fair.

If you think that sounds like a pyramid scheme, you don't have to use it - but open the ports for the rest of us at least FFS.

 

[ranger]

You guys are definitely blocking SOMETHING because I can't sync my bitcoin wallet either.
I've been on many, many different ISPs and none of them have this problem other than telkom.

...

Get with the times and unblock it man, we are paying for this little service called "The internet"

...

If you think that sounds like a pyramid scheme, you don't have to use it - but open the ports for the rest of us at least FFS.

Again, we don't block anything at all. There may be a different reason that it doesn't work, and if you actually provide some details rather than insinuating that people at Telkom are clueless for not using something (personally) they have no need for, maybe we can get it fixed.

 

[ranger]

The problem with caps is how much is enough?

If you under-utilise your cap you're over-paying, and if your cap isn't high enough then you're stressed about being over-charged once you run out of it.

We don't over-charge:
-Topup rates are almost identical to the capped package prices (so it would be *slightly* cheaper to be on 20GB than to be on 10GB and buy 10GB topup just due to volume discount of the 20GB) and is valid until the end of the month after you buy it.
- Out-of-bundle is billed per MB at the marginal per-GB topup rate to a limit of your normal cap (e.g. if you're on 20GB you can use another 20GB out-of-bundle).
- By default, we don't bill, we soft-cap, to avoid bill-shock and to allow the user to choose

Compared to some other ISPs* this is definitely not over-charging ...

Maybe after a few months users can get a feel of their 'normal' usage patterns, but as you've seen here Telkom has previously been unwilling to be fully transparent about even that (the SAIX tool isn't common knowledge and Telkom's titracker has no figures once you go uncapped).

Remember that the majority of our customers are on capped, so the assumption was that users knew approximately what their data requirements were. The intention has been to make usage information available on the tracker, but we have seen huge growth in traffic over the past two years as users migrate to uncapped and with line speed upgrades, so some projects have been delayed so we can keep up with growing the network to meet demand. So, product management's prerequisites for showing detailed usage information haven't been met ..

 

[PAYBACK]

The problem with caps is how much is enough?

Also how does TELKOM go about defining "legitimate" from let's say "illegal" downloading of content via P2P?

With the XBOX ONE I got the little guy for Xmas the downloads skyrocketed with all the downloads from the store. Pulled 184 gig in December without a problem. About 70 percent of that was from the XBOX Store. Not sure what defines excessive usage these days, 184 gig is rare for me.

How does TELKOM go about differentiating between a person downloading games off a store and the snotty nose punk kid downloading movies and the latest series of buffy the vampire slayer?

 

[wingnut771]

Also how does TELKOM go about defining "legitimate" from let's say "illegal" downloading of content via P2P?

With the XBOX ONE I got the little guy for Xmas the downloads skyrocketed with all the downloads from the store. Pulled 184 gig in December without a problem. About 70 percent of that was from the XBOX Store. Not sure what defines excessive usage these days, 184 gig is rare for me.

How does TELKOM go about differentiating between a person downloading games off a store and the snotty nose punk kid downloading movies and the latest series of buffy the vampire slayer?

What's the difference, data is data, still goes through the same pipe to your line, so IMHO, this is not so much about data but more about the age old pirating debate, in which case doesn't apply to this thread.

 

[MickeyD]

What's the difference, data is data, still goes through the same pipe to your line, so IMHO, this is not so much about data but more about the age old pirating debate, in which case doesn't apply to this thread.

Correct

 

[PAYBACK]

What's the difference, data is data, still goes through the same pipe to your line, so IMHO, this is not so much about data but more about the age old pirating debate, in which case doesn't apply to this thread.

It is not that clear cut I'm afraid. It's the P2P crowd that abuse the system simple as that. Whatever it is people get up to with P2P is the very reason we have things like FUP. Data is data sure but where it originates separates the legitimate users from the average Joes.

Average Joe however now also becomes bandwidth hungry with things like DSTV Catch-up + and starts pulling legitimate movies,series onto his Explora. Is he now abusing his uncapped account?

 

[Unhappy1]

Im not sure why people have this idea about P2P , you can do just as much illegal stuff through news servers and dodgy streams.

 

[Grouter]

Im not sure why people have this idea about P2P , you can do just as much illegal stuff through news servers and dodgy streams.

And conversely do lots of legal stuff through those same 3 channels as well.

 

[whatwhat]

How does TELKOM go about differentiating between a person downloading games off a store and the snotty nose punk kid downloading movies and the latest series of buffy the vampire slayer?

Shame. Data is data, regardless of how you use. The snotty nose kid paying the same monthly fee as you has just as much as right, whether he is paying for his media or not.

It's funny how people always cry about people using bandwith, and then suddenly they get a device that allows them to actually see what the internet can be used for the blinkers slowly start falling off.

 

[wingnut771]

It is not that clear cut I'm afraid. It's the P2P crowd that abuse the system simple as that. Whatever it is people get up to with P2P is the very reason we have things like FUP. Data is data sure but where it originates separates the legitimate users from the average Joes.

Average Joe however now also becomes bandwidth hungry with things like DSTV Catch-up + and starts pulling legitimate movies,series onto his Explora. Is he now abusing his uncapped account?

That's your opinion. FUP needs to apply to anyone downloading big amounts, whether it's xbox updates or p2p.

It's like me saying someone who bought an xbox and downloads 80GB's in 3 days has a worse effect on the network than someone p2p'ing a few movies at 10GB's, just my opinion, but the former sounds worse to me.

 

[Keeper]

Again, we don't block anything at all. There may be a different reason that it doesn't work, and if you actually provide some details rather than insinuating that people at Telkom are clueless for not using something (personally) they have no need for, maybe we can get it fixed.

I understand the people at Telkom "have no need" to use bitcoin "personally".
The problem however, is that it's not about what telkom staff use "personally" or "have a need for" - it's about what WE need the internet for. We are the ones paying for the service.

I understand that you personally don't care about bitcoin but there are a hell of a lot of us out there that do, and we can't move our bitcoin if our wallets can't sync!

I really can't provide any other details other than multibit won't sync when using Telkom as an ISP... it seems to use port 8333, that's about all I know.
Crystalweb works, OpenWeb works, Axxess works.

 

[Foxhound5366]

We don't over-charge:
- Out-of-bundle is billed per MB at the marginal per-GB topup rate to a limit of your normal cap (e.g. if you're on 20GB you can use another 20GB out-of-bundle).
- By default, we don't bill, we soft-cap, to avoid bill-shock and to allow the user to choose

That's some interesting information ranger, and it's something I don't recall seeing anywhere on Telkom's website while researching the products initially. Can you please suggest to your teams that while they're hashing out what to disclose to the public, that they also re-do the marketing material from a technical perspective? Right now you're operating from the assumption that people know what they want, but there is very little in the way of explanatory sales materials on Telkom's website.

 

[ranger]

I understand the people at Telkom "have no need" to use bitcoin "personally".
The problem however, is that it's not about what telkom staff use "personally" or "have a need for" - it's about what WE need the internet for. We are the ones paying for the service.

You seem to misunderstand me. WE DON'T INTENTIONALLY BLOCK ANYTHING. There may be some routing issue, it may be that a device in our network has a bug, but these two complaints are the first complaints I have seen relating to crypto-currencies. We can't actively test everything you can do on the internet, and if you don't report it, we don't know what isn't working if we don't use it.

I have however installed bitcoin and dogecoin. Bitcoin immediately started to sync the blockchain, dogecoin showed no connections to the dogecoin network, but I am still not 100% sure I am not missing something, but will investigate a bit further later tonight.

I only mentioned my personal non-use of crypto-currencies to indicate why I couldn't provide an answer on why it isn't working or what useful info to provide.

I understand that you personally don't care about bitcoin but there are a hell of a lot of us out there that do, and we can't move our bitcoin if our wallets can't sync!

Sure, but you seem to think thst because I don't use it, all us fuddy-duddies at Telkom block it cos we can't figger them there new-fangled electric calculating machines out and why they need the telephone line but don't make any sounds.

I really can't provide any other details other than multibit won't sync when using Telkom as an ISP... it seems to use port 8333, that's about all I know.
Crystalweb works, OpenWeb works, Axxess works.

Ok, so you are using Multibit with Bitcoin and Aqua_lung is using dogecoin ( the dogecoin java client, the dogecoin qt client, or a 3rd-party one?)