Telkom proclaims ADSL vindication

Here's my comment posted to ITWeb - of course, all comments are subject to edit review prior to publication, so it's quite possible that it will be binned and not posted:

"I do believe that ITWeb has been abused as a forum by Telkom, to deliberately publicise dubious and questionable facts and promote deliberate fiction when it comes to ADSL. Granted, the by-liner did state that industry experts reacted cautiously to the claims, saying they are reluctant to comment on the results, without seeing the full sample and methodology used. However, this is exactly the basis for ensuring the publication of a balanced article that is devoid of market-speak. The article - which comes across as essentially nothing more than editorial/advertorial provided by Telkom - should not have been published, without pertinent comment from such experts concerning the validity of the survey and its results. Without this, the article is tantamount to nothing more than cheap propaganda by Messrs White and Van De Groenendaal, in my opinion. It does ITWeb no good to be a mechanism for the manipulation of public perceptions in this manner."
 
I assume you're referring to the comments made by Messrs White and Van De Groenendaal, and not my comment posted to ITWeb. Be all that as it may, the answer is you can only 'turn it around' if you have facts providing eveidence to the contrary, which is what must be provided by the industry experts. If not, you're only doing exactly what Telkom have done, and I certainly don't want to go down to their level - some of us do have some level of integrity, after all. I would expect Warwick Ashford to do a follow-up on the article appropriately - let's see if it happens...
 
If this servey is true then I must be totally ignorant or something. I have difficulty believing it... RPM, why not create a MyADSL's own servey. Here's how it can be done:

What you need is a secure server. (https://) For this servey to work you will need real details from real people. The contents of the database will offcourse need to be held in the strictest of confidence. There will most likely need to be a privacy statement which says that the details will not be made available to any one except a registered Auditor or something to that effect.

Get a coder that creates software for the servey so that nobody are able to cheat. It would probably be easy to do in say PHP (there are probably PHP coders on this forum - any volunteers?)

What the software does is record the telephone number (this would be the unique thing that sets it up so that nobody can take the servey twice). After 700+ users took the servey, start phoning all the telephone numbers to ensure nobody cheated.

Maybe there is an Auditor in the forums who can volunteer his services to overlook everything?

After that I think we may have a realistic feel of what is going on - with figures out in the open..

The only thing that may cost money will be the telephone calls? Maybe 2/3 thousand or so.... Maybe donations can take care of this?

Just some thoughts... Any other thoughts from anybody else? I guees this could make real news in the media. Would make hectic headlines - 'users challenge Telkom's ADSL survey'...
 
Hi Plug

To conduct our own survey is a good idea, but I don’t think it will make much of a difference regarding Telkom’s stand on this issue. They have obviously decided that they would like to ‘vindicate’ ADSL, and that is why the Markinor survey was done. I think the Markinor survey’s results are dubious and that I would like to see the full questionnaire and results before accepting it. Even if the results are truly representative of ADSL user’s feeling about the service, all that this will tell me is that a great deal of user education is needed in the fields of Internet technologies and worldwide ICT trends. It will also tell me that MyADSL is indeed a place where the most knowledgeable ADSL and other broadband users meet to discuss broadband issues in South Africa.

Whatever might be the case regarding the results of the Markinor survey (I asked Steven White for the results and details of this survey, both publicly on ITWeb and in an email), it does not mean that Telkom is supplying a satisfactory service. I think knowledgeable ADSL users and people in the industry should be asked to analyze the service, and I am willing to bet ‘green money’ that most knowledgeable users can be found right here. The most encouraging facet of this survey and press release by Telkom is that they are willing to invest a great deal of time and money to try and prove MyADSL wrong. Unfortunately for Telkom our membership is steadily growing, and these members continue to publicly give their opinions about the ADSL service. Will it not be easier for Telkom to simply improve their service and make their users happy?

Regards,

RPM
[email protected]
 
“We have done our best to make ADSL sustainable and affordable, and hope to drive down the cost even further as the number of users increases and more sophisticated billing technologies become available.”


Now somewhere I have lost the plot - ADSL ISP fees were just pushed up by Telkom on 1 February 2004 - Only Telkom can make a statement like this and believe it
 
A certain Rudolph reminded readers of ITWeb in a letter about the results of an Ananzi poll not too long ago. [:D]

South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.
 
Yep!

It is insane? Are they all corrupt? Is it something they all learn in Telkom? To lie like that!??!

Cheers


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by doekvoet</i>
<br />“We have done our best to make ADSL sustainable and affordable, and hope to drive down the cost even further as the number of users increases and more sophisticated billing technologies become available.”


Now somewhere I have lost the plot - ADSL ISP fees were just pushed up by Telkom on 1 February 2004 - Only Telkom can make a statement like this and believe it
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous
 
May I make a suggestion here ?

We urge the auditors of Telkom (not the management) to get another expert , another survey for comparison with White's survey---.He claims he is open to audit.

We politely remind the auditors that this subscriber's satisfactory survey can reflect Telkom's risk of investment in the ADSL market ----there is NOW a competing alternative i.e. Sentech mywireless.

It is their duty to ascertain the correct-ness of the survey on behalf of shareholders interest


Lessons from corporate governance.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
they all started from just small lies
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by antowan</i>
ORIGINAL TEXT TO BE FOUND AT: http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2004/0402051159.asp
Telkom proclaims ADSL vindication<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<font color="blue"><font size="2"><i>White says the survey results are gratifying considering the effort Telkom has made to provide the best ADSL service at the lowest possible price</i></font id="size2"></font id="blue">

1. ADSL is designed and intended to provide a high speed connection using existing copper cables -
this implies high throughput.
<b> Telkom have provided nothing of the sort</b>


2. 64/128K ISDN is designed and intended for home users and small businesses who download email, browse occasionally and download AV updates. The lightweights.

3. If a lightweight can afford ADSL, of course many of them will be happy -
<b>but they are not using the technology as it was intended</b>.

4. Telkom's concept that ADSL is intended for lightweight users - is bllusiht.

If you believe that Telkom ADSL is good - you have been duped ! [8D]
 
<font size="2">posted by BTTB http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=410#10135</font id="size2">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b><font color="red"><font size="3">I bought ADSL, mainly because I was sick and tired of waiting for 7pm so I could use my R7 call plan</font id="size3"></font id="red"></b><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This is probably the the main reason why many move to adsl .........
then ...........

The new "Telkom adsl" user discovers what ADSL, as the world knows it, can do and what others across the world are doing with ADSL.

Logically many users want to do as the world does - but Telkom does not deliver this capability. Why ????

Telkom makes a siht load more money from lightweight Telkom adsl users than it would if they were to stick with ISDN or 56K.

If all Telkom adsl users adopted Stevie's "local is lekker dream", Telkom would make even more siht loads of money.

We are just being manipulated and I don't think ICASA or this govt. cares twosihts about it.
 
It's odd if one thinks about it, but 8-year olds overseas have a ADSL connection in their room which they pay for with their <u>pocket money</u>, and here in SA it takes either a business or a well-off indivudual with money to spare to be able to afford a DSL line which is a fraction of the speed and quality but multiples more expensive.

Go figure.

<u>________________________________________________</u>
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom
 
I have post a response to itweb ,its not out yet

"There is only one survey can tell the truth"

let us survey how many ADSL users are switching over to mywireless?

Gooku
 
Sentech should actually ask people when they're signing up if they are/were an ADSL user. Not only would this give an indication of the number of unsatisfied people but if there are sufficient people migrating it would be good advertising for Sentech. Nothing like a little competitive advertising to ruffle the fat cat into action [;)]
 
Remember Sentech is a State-owned institution...... once again..

So unless there's a grootkop at Telkom and one at Sentech and they're pissed off at each other there will be no competition. But if you think about it, if you buy the modem cash the monthlies for the 128k work out to ~R437 which isn't a ball-breaker but could be less. Definitely not universally-priced. Everyone has their ideal price points and i think the 128K should be R200/month, 256K should be R260/month and the 512K I would pay R380/month for. That seems more reasonable.

But i find it odd that their VSTAR is 512/128 @ R3000 a month (even with a 50:1 contention ratio) but MyWireless is ~R1,400 for the same speed connection... wonder if the contention ratio is just a helluva lot bigger.. ?

And here i sit with a hangover 10PM on a Saturday nite [:o)]

<u>________________________________________________</u>
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom
 
An informed source told me that SAIX had moved all their international connectivity over to cable (last quarter of 2003) as it had become cheaper than satellite.
Now if Sentech uses satellite and satellite is more expensive than cable, how come Sentech can offer cheaper internet packages (without a cap) than Telkom?*
Once again I ask the question which has never been answered: How much does internatioanl bandwidth cost (wholesale price) Telkom and Sentech? If anybody can get hold of this information, it is worth a stack of bucks because then we know who is ripping off whom.

*<i>For this argument I assume that all satellite costs are approximately the same for Sentech and Telkom.</i>
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Now if Sentech uses satellite<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
They don't. As anyone can verify with a simple traceroute, they are using IS's fiber links for international connectivity.

<hr noshade size="1">mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar
 
Hi there this is my first post but I have been keeping my eyes on the progress of adsl for some time now.[8D]

I was part of this survey and I remember very clearly how all the questions concerning telkoms downfalls on adsl had the same kind of answer[}:)]

a. Good
b. better
c.best
[:(!]
there was no answer that would harm them. I even argued with the woman doing the survey asked her how was I to answer if my answer was not in the list of options, she clearly did not know so I told her to put in some extra options so I could answer because I wanted them to know the truth about the service she just laughs and this was quite upsetting,
then to make things worse they asked some of the dumbest questions I could ever imagine.
The one I can clearly remember was “ How does telecoms A.D.S.L. service compare to there competition”
Options :
a = competitive
b = not competitive
c = better than normal
[xx(]
something Like that how was I suppose to answer that I mean they don't have any competition so there was truly no answer,
and these where the nature of the questions that where asked I really think this survey was more a reflection on how desperate they are.
That they would need to tweak a survey to get the right result shows you that we are making a impact[;)]
may bee not on them but on the mind's of other ignorant adsl users as to the fact that they are being ripped off and this is wat is scaring them.(Telkom)[:p]

I think we need a independent website to host a voting poll and then we need to advertise on the radio
in deferent areas that this voting poll is available and that only adsl users are aloud to vote and that
they may only vote once this should run for a month so every one has a chance to vote .[:D]

I thought the ananzi pole was a good Idea but if I hadn't happen to have gone there I would never have know that the was a voting pole .

What you think RMP[8]

                       \\ -| |- //
                        (  o o  )
----------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------------------------------
HQ_+ The will to Persevere is often the difference between FAILURE and SUCCESS.
 
Based on HG's post, the 'survey' was not a true survey, but merely a ploy to fabricate supportive evidence of a particular stance - this is typically the kind of thing you find being done by politicians: what a disaster! It's no wonder that there appears to be a reluctance to make available the survey input to RPM! It's also disgusting that Markinor should allow itself to be abused in this manner (as with ITWeb) - I surely will never recommend nor make use of their services, if this is the basis of their professional standing as researchers!

Nevertheless, here's my latest posting to the ITWeb article, also viewable at:

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/feedback/feedcopy.asp?CommentID=2946

Let's see if they're as professional as they are meant to be, and duly respond with a follow-up article...

"[6 Feb 2004 ] Given the somewhat emotive responses to this article, it would seem that Telkom have succeeded admirably in obfuscating the issue (not least for your by-liner and editorial reviewers). The point is, it is incumbent upon the by-liner to ensure that a follow-up article is done, to publish the reaction of industry experts regarding the poll, and to take advantage of Mr White`s offer to be audited to ensure that review, qualification, and expert comment on the validity of the original survey is published - it follows that perceptions of ITWeb being abused by Telkom, will thereby be extinguised.

Should Mr White refuse to make available evidentiary support for his contentions (as already requested by Mr Muller), it then falls upon you to ensure that this refusal be duly published, with a headline of equal emotive purport and impact to that of the original article. In like manner, the reasons behind such industry experts not being willing to comment, should have been accompanied by a by-line header of equal impact, not merely as a concluding paragraph in an article perceived as nothing more than advertorial for Telkom. Please let us endeavour to publish all the facts surrounding Telkom`s ADSL offering at the appropriate times, and undertake not to promote indirect marketing (inadevertently or otherwise), through the publication of articles designed to do nothing more than polish Telkom`s image in the eyes of the general public. I would expect the necessary investigative journalism to be undertaken by Mr Ashford and an appropriate follow-up article to be done, in line with the professionalism expected of ITWeb - your confirmation in this regard is awaited."
 
A sample of whatever size is meaningless for statistical purposes, if it is not proven to be a random sample.

[:)]


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by caroper</i>
<br />"based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients"

Is that the number of participants or an area code?
They called me and my number is 790xxxx.
And I know most of the other users in the (Hout Bay) exchange.
I must have been the 13% that was not satisfied [:)][:D]

Just out of interest Markinor refused to release the questions, despite the fact that I participated, and said that Telkom provided them and I have to request them there.

This was rigged.
Sample Question "how much more would you be willing to pay for ....."
How would you rate this service compared to a carrier pidgon?" [}:)]

Ok the last one was facetious but you get my drift.

Most of the questions did concern the price and the cap. Whenever I mentioned personal complaints such as port prioritisation or the proxy, I was told that it was beyond the scope of the survey, and to please stick to the multiple-choice answers.

This result is no more or less than I expected.

The two most telling parts of the story are that:

“Industry experts reacted cautiously to the claims, saying they are reluctant to comment on the results without seeing the full sample and methodology used.”

And as was pointed out earlier in this thread, If Telkom consider 87% of 790 users to be a good sample, how can they ignore 100% of 1000+ users on this site.

Cheers
Chris



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
 
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