kripstoe
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Why won't it last?
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Test drive: New Audi A3
- Thread starter Naks
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Why won't it last?
Brawler
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Hmmm. So that is 2 relatively new vehicles that you know about and both have had problems, albeit minor, warranty or not. I'm not too concerned about these motors under warranty or motorplan although the inconvenience would piss me off as I am on my third NA vehicle and not a single issue. A colleague has the Scirocco 1.4 and it also has had countless problems.
We all know TSI type engines are the future but I'm going to stick to NA for the time being as there are without doubt long term reliability questions about these new motors. I'm not saying they are all going to blow up after 100k KM but you can expect more costly services and replacements.
Brawler
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I am doing a bit of googling, finding a lot of problems with the 1.4TSI (but I guess you can google for any engine problems and find a lot so lets not go there) and it seems as if VW are ditching the supercharger in the new models? Golf 7 etc. Reason being expense to manufacture and reliability problems. Anyone know any more?
grim
Expert Member
Yep, mostly to do with the cost and complexity of the twincharge setup, they will most likely replace it with a twin turbo engine at some point.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
Generally speaking anything VAG that is not naturally aspirated will lead to trouble in the long run.
That being said they are a helluva lot of fun to drive. Having driven a few 1.9 TDIs (not mine) and a 1.4 TSI (also not mine) I can honestly they say they will knock your socks off.
That being said they are a helluva lot of fun to drive. Having driven a few 1.9 TDIs (not mine) and a 1.4 TSI (also not mine) I can honestly they say they will knock your socks off.
Naks
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We've had the A3 2.0 TDi since it first came out, in Dec 2006. Now on 105Kkm, no major issues except for a dirty tank that needed to be flushed and a leaking FPR replaced under AFP. Still on the original windscreen wipers!
Messugga
Honorary Master
If you Google it, there are a lot of cases where the turbo goes at 50k-60k km. I personally only know two people with Polo GTIs, the one is still pretty damn new and the other has had a niggle or two which was handled by VW.
Rocket-Boy
Honorary Master
Wow that is pretty terrible logic buying an older classic, all you will ever be doing is paying money to fix it. It will also have terrible fuel economy.
At least a new car comes with a warranty and or service plan, you might call it boring but I would take a newer less performance orientated car over an older performance car every time.
Yes I am a car enthusiast and yes I have driven bunches of older performance cars, that is why I prefer the newer car with warranty.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
I've often found people who have had issues with the Turbo popping are the same kind of people who didn't know the Turbo was there in the first place.
Therefore they didn't drive it with a Turbo in mind and simply spanked the engine from cold starts and killed it after short trips etc, knocking it with a fast hot/cold cycle every time.
At the same time I know of Golf GTi's with 250 000+ km on the clock without any Turbo issues.
Therefore they didn't drive it with a Turbo in mind and simply spanked the engine from cold starts and killed it after short trips etc, knocking it with a fast hot/cold cycle every time.
At the same time I know of Golf GTi's with 250 000+ km on the clock without any Turbo issues.
Exactly - people who buy these turbo cars need to be informed on how to treat them and drive them for longevity. I can guarantee you that a person who buys a GTi is not going to tootle around town in it. Besides that, many of these guys chip and mod the engines for more power, obviously exceeding design specifications and ruining the engine over time. Incorrect oil is another killer for turbo's (you have to buy the correct oil grade as specified in the manual, not out the tin at the petrol station). Heat is another killer as well as high altitude (Gauteng).
If you treat your turbo right, it should last 100 000km+ easily. An N/A car will most likely last longer than a turbo, but then you have much less performance, fuel economy and driving pleasure. New turbo's can be had for 10 grand or less which is a small price to pay for a performance car.
Lastly, the plural of "annecdote" is not "data" - in other words "i know a guy with a Gti" or "i have a friend with a problem" does not add up to proof that there is a problem with a particular vehicle. We can all name people with any vehicle brand that has had issues. Also, the average motorist is most likely not going to treat a car correctly due to ignorance.
If you treat your turbo right, it should last 100 000km+ easily. An N/A car will most likely last longer than a turbo, but then you have much less performance, fuel economy and driving pleasure. New turbo's can be had for 10 grand or less which is a small price to pay for a performance car.
Lastly, the plural of "annecdote" is not "data" - in other words "i know a guy with a Gti" or "i have a friend with a problem" does not add up to proof that there is a problem with a particular vehicle. We can all name people with any vehicle brand that has had issues. Also, the average motorist is most likely not going to treat a car correctly due to ignorance.
kripstoe
Expert Member
Excellent post
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Bizarrely finding the oil grade required in VW's manual is pretty much impossible.
Instead all they give you is their product codes for the required oil, which you find on some cans of oil but not all. I remember when I first got my GTi it was quite the mission to find the correct oil.
Yup, 120 000km on my Golf 5 GTi now and not a problem in the world.
Also a Turbo doesn't necessarily need to be replaced, that's a cheap (or rather expensive) cop out by many workshops...especially those of the official dealership variety.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
Firstly, 100,000km+ is simply not good enough. Considering by that time the car will be out of warranty with no service or maintenance plan covering it you will be in a really bad situation when it blows. Secondly you cannot just go about saying a normally aspirated car gives worse consumption, performance and driving pleasure. I have an N/A car that has given me great performance and consumption and I still enjoy driving it.
That being said I do acknowledge that for emission and efficiency sake manufacturers are turning at various blower technologies, even in non performance models. Hopefully these will not limit the lifespan of the vehicle's powertrain.
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RaptorSA
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That's a possibility, but most of the arguments against running an older car vs. a new car with motorplan is bull****.
1 - There's no reason to buy a crappy quality and badly maintained older car. A well looked after older vehicle with service history (or better yet, knowing the owner) can run just as well. You also gain the fact that the car has already had a history behind it. There's no guarantee new vehicles run perfectly and even if they are covered by a motor plan the process is a pain.
2 - Aftermarket parts are readily available for older "classics" and the quality, performance and price tend to blow OEM parts out of the water.
3 - The money you save when buying an older car can easily make up for the cost of any upgrades and or replacment parts you need. Better yet, if things don't go wrong you end up saving more than you would have.
4 - Older cars tend to have iron blocks which are in many cases superior to aluminium blocks. Yes, they don't have the efficiency and performance of modern blocks but they tend to be much cheaper to fix/maintain than modern engines and there are other ways to offset the weight added by older blocks. (eg. using aluminium bootlids, aftermarket lower wight body panels etc.). Also, "less efficient" doesn't mean you get something that gobbles down fuel. Something like the old Toyota RXI engine was definitely not a gas guzzler and even something crazy like the rotary in a RX-8 gets about the same as a mid range modern fuel consumption aware SUV.
5 - Older cars tend to have much simpler electronics than modern cars. That translates to a vehicle than can be fixed by either yourself (with a little bit of knowledge) or by any reliable run of the mill mechanic. Eg. Try fixing something like a Volvo S60 yourself. It's almost impossible without ridiculously exensive tools. As a rule of thumb for the average person: As long as you get something that's safe (as an everyday driver) and has fuel injection, you're set. Any other electronic gadgets or whatnot you want to add can be done later and can still be cheap and good quality, you don't have to go all Brakpan.
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grim
Expert Member
It's not the product code they list in the manual, it's the specification for the oil. You'll find the 50x.xx code listed on the back of the bottle if it is the correct spec.
http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php
I agree - 100 000km is practically a brand new vehicle.
I clock that up in 4 years and I expect a vehicle to run for at least 250 000 to 300 000km without any components needing replacement so if turbo's are not lasting 250 000km+ then I consider the technology unreliable.
grim
Expert Member
That's you, I refuse to drive a vehicle that is out of warranty and out of service plan. I extended the warranty on my Golf 1.4TSI to 7 Years/200 000km
Also you do know that a turbo can spin at up to 150 000rpm?
Anything operating at those speeds and the temperatures that a turbo has to endure that lasts 150 000km in my mind is extremely reliable.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
If you want to keep VWSA on your payroll thats your problem. I try to pay my cars off as fast as possible and keep them until they become unreliable. That is how you save money which can be better applied to proper investments.
Yes - and your point it? I have a car with over 200,000km and I'm quite happy with it. Turbo needs to become more reliable, if that means operating at lower pressure then so be it. The vast majority of the market is not interested in performance cars, they want reliable cars.
Forced induction (turbos/superchargers) is a response to CAFE standards/quest for better fuel efficiency. VAG and others are using it more frequently as a result.
VWs has never been a brand based on reliability (jetta) as opposed to Japanese. If you need a reliable turbo, look at a Subaru.
Also, motorplans are designed to make money; I don't understand why they are so popular in SA
VWs has never been a brand based on reliability (jetta) as opposed to Japanese. If you need a reliable turbo, look at a Subaru.
Also, motorplans are designed to make money; I don't understand why they are so popular in SA
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
Forced induction can work in the long run, just look at what Mercedes has done with the M271 1.8L engine that is used in the C180K, C200K and C230K. By simply tuning your forced induction system you can end up with a powertrain that will last as long as most normally aspirated ones.