The 86 has arrived :D

Fazda, this is a public forum and I am entitled to my opinion, as it is just that my opinion.

Based on your attitude about us pimple faced dragsters just needing to shut up, I think I will pass on this car.

I happen love the track days and legal drags so figures are important to me when laying down 300k plus and if you are not prepared to discuss figures and what makes this car better then the rest besides looks I am not interested, I will look elsewhere for a replacement of my R26.

LOL - if you are prepared to ignore a bloody good car simply because you don't like me or my opinion, simply points to the fact that you have no intention of ever buying one.

If that's the case then please go and troll on some other thread.

At my age, if I consider pimple faced drag racers idiots, I am perfectly entitled to. As you were so quick to point out your opinion - this is mine.
 
Thanks will do.

All I did was ask a question and it seems you don't have the answer and nowhere did I say I did not like you or you opinion, but you seem to clearly have an issue with me.
 
Thanks will do.

All I did was ask a question and it seems you don't have the answer and nowhere did I say I did not like you or you opinion, but you seem to clearly have an issue with me.

Oh? I thought it was the other way round.

What question did you ask?

You made a statement that the British TRD was too expensive and not quick enough - perhaps you should have posted the article instead of the link, as some people cannot follow links from work.

Here is the article for those people unable to follow the link.

Let them read it and make up their own mind. That being said, any number that has a Pound sign in front of it is too much for me.

Verdict
4
We love the Toyota GT 86 – and the prospect of an even more sporty version is a tantalising one. The range of TRD parts is well chosen and really adds to the appeal of this back-to-basics rear-wheel-drive coupe. However, we’d urge Toyota to try to keep a lid on the cost of these extras – specify the whole lot and you could be faced with a big bill for mostly cosmetic changes. ( I FULLY AGREE)
It’s one of our favourite sports cars of 2012 so far, but even we think Toyota’s GT 86 could do with some extra spice. And that’s just what this version brings.

The GT 86 TRD is the work of the Toyota Racing Development performance division, and gets a whole host of upgrades designed to ratchet up the excitement.

They also increase the price. Add all the performance parts this car has and you’d be looking at a bill of around £40,000. Given that the standard model – tested on Page 50 – carries a £24,995 price tag, is the TRD worth the huge £15,000 extra?

Well, you certainly get head-turning looks. TRD has developed its own aggressive bodykit, which comprises a lower front spoiler, side skirts, a redesigned rear spoiler and rear diffuser along with racy new 18-inch alloy wheels, painted black. These are wrapped in 225/40-section tyres, which are larger and wider than the standard model’s 215/45-section R17s.

The braking modifications will also excite driving enthusiasts, as they include huge six-piston front and four-piston rear calipers, all in a dramatic shade of red, while the suspension is upgraded with four-way adjustable dampers.

Inside are new sports seats and a raft of TRD badges for the push-button starter and gearlever. The one area that’s left relatively untouched is the engine, as the only additions to boost our test car’s performance were a new exhaust system – just check out those dramatic quad pipes at the rear – and a TRD air filter.

Toyota couldn’t confirm whether these tweaks boosted power by much, although such a set-up usually adds about 10bhp, which would take power from 197bhp to around 207bhp.

With the added weight of the new bodykit and larger wheels, we’d expect any improvement in straight-line speed to be negated anyway, leaving the 0-62mph time at around 7.6 seconds.

On the move, the GT 86 TRD doesn’t have the low-rev punch of a turbocharged hot hatch like the new 247bhp Ford Focus ST; instead it thrives on revs. The slick six-speed manual gearbox makes it easy to keep the engine on the boil, though, while the new exhaust system adds a sportier note.

Our brief test took place at the Goodwood Festival of Speed and we could feel the suspension changes on our run up the famous hill. We could carry lots of speed through the tight, tricky corners and the GT 86 was even more agile than the standard car.

Is all this worth £40,000, though? You’d have to be a dedicated enthusiast to think so, particularly when you could have a Porsche Boxster for about £36,500. In fairness, Toyota is still deciding on how to offer the TRD package to customers, and it looks likely that buyers will be able to pick and choose from a wide range of parts. So you could just add the wheels (£850 each at the moment!), or the upgraded brakes or a boot spoiler. Or dig deep and have the whole lot.

We think Toyota needs to give the GT 86 far more performance to justify a large increase to the price tag, although it’s possible more engine tuning could be available by the time the TRD parts hit dealers in January.

Whatever happens, having a great range of tuning options certainly boosts the appeal of one of our favourite coupes

I am sure Porsche would happily sell you a Boxter.....
 
Ummm I think you are confusing me with Haldex, I said the clio is 50K cheaper and an all round better track car according to a number of international car mags, so I asked what would make me want to spend the extra on this car?

honest question, I asked the Renault salesman a similar thing.

I posted that link for the guys ranting and raving about modding the car.

And I don't try compare cars that are vastly different in price, so do me a favour and show some respect.
 
I said it is an all round better track car according to the car mags, the Renault RS is 50K cheaper.

Do me a favour keep punting the brand, you doing it proud. Enjoy selling cars, I'm out.
 
It doesnt give the performance figures you stated, I did a downpipe and removed the cat of mine, cars feels awesome, but no way you going to get 30kw lol!!
I have 400NM on tap, you??

Yeah you right, If you actually read on you see I meant to say exhaust + software, In a later post. As I said i thought I put it in but I did not (i do not proof read my posts), however decatting the 86 would provide a significant increase as it got a double cat system not a standard one.

400 NM huh, got a generator at home? you do realise its kW/Weight ratio thats important huh, talking torque like you even know what it means shows how stupid you are. Also at least your stupidity is justified, I did not ask how much torque you got in your diesel generator, I mocked your intelligence as a whole, to which you replied "I got 400nM on tap" how that makes any sense I do not know. That insult flew straight over your head, perhaps I will use something you can understand but then I will feel like I am mocking a child.

Let me teach you about torque sir, the torque quoted is at the engine not at the wheels. You cannot take torque into account for acceleration unless you talk with gear ratios as well. Generally the higher torque the better acceleration, HOWEVER thats because most cars rev to 6000 rpm. Now you try and do that against a car that has half that torque and revs to 12 000 rpm and it will smash you in acceleration completely, because it can stay in a single drive ratio longer. The engine torque is related to the torque on the wheel by the gear ratio if the total (transmission times differential) gear ratio is 10:1, for example, so thats 10 revolutions of the engine results in one revolution of the wheels, then the torque exerted by the wheels is geared by a factor of 10 over the torque exerted by the engine. In other words the gearbox functions as a torque multiplier.

In low gear the torque available at the wheel should be quite a bit higher than the torque at the output of the engine. there are limitations the lower the gear (higher ratio), the faster the engine must spin to make the car move the same speed, so the more power the engine must generate (max output and rpm come into play here). If we had a perfectly lossless, infinitely variable transmission and drivetrain, it wouldn’t matter one bit how much torque the engine had at the output, the only thing that would matter would be power, which is the product of torque and angular velocity. This is the reason a ferrari taking of in sixth gear will probably accelerate slower than me on a bicycle (I wouldnt take that as fact, pretty unfit these days ROFL)

sigh you speak here as if you know something :/ you like those idiots I see with city golfs, they install a freeflow exhaust to make their cars sound like an obese man who ate too much beans. Then they put split profile tyres on the citi golfs with the wider profile on the back on a front wheel drive car (why? because the M3 has it duh), then they think they got a PhD in engineering afterwards. Now sir you can come and claim on tap and blah blah blah but the fact that you thought I was comparing vehicles means you an idiot and you didnt even quote your vehicle just its torque so you ashamed of it, sad really. Anyways im not here to class you in terms of money, thats low very low. Even a troll and a person with a lesser IQ does not deserve that. If you must know I dont have a car at the moment, I just sold my e39 525i german spec with ac schitnzer conversion a few days ago. I was originally looking to buy one of the following: porsche cayman/boxster, BMW 1M/335 e92 or SLK or c-class coupe, but this little toyota caught my attention before I did. Im 25 years old I do not need a headache like those cars will provide me with, in the future.

Fazda said:
WRX which, although it develops 50 kw more, also weighs 250 kg more.

A buddy and me were having a chat about this it can actually produce more power per ton then high end sports cars without costing an arm and a leg or a finance of R60 000/month lol, and since its styling its taken from Lexus LFA not a bad thing this. Stock standard it produces 122kw/ton to put that in perspective a e90 BMW 330i has only 120kW/ton and the WRX and older legacy 3.0R match the toyota's performance. Not only that the car has an additional 2000 rpm on most cars and 3000 rpm on diesel vehicles in general. Though Im going to do the TRD cosmetics saves me a headache of hunting original parts later cause all suppliers for UK are out of stock. Plus I rather have the factory fit it than wait or chance my warranty. Costly for small increaces but its the look im after, so safer to leave it in toyota's hands for now.

Spazmatic said:
I said it is an all round better track car according to the car mags, the Renault RS is 50K cheaper.

Be very careful, Fazda, is giving you very good advice, renault is a nice car and sure you entitled to your opinion and you welcome to ask people for an opinion if you leaning more towards the renault and perhaps exploring the idea of the toyota.

Here is what im going to say to you, im a realist. Is this renault going to be your only car? if yes, then dont buy it. End of story. Everyone I know who has a renault, likes the car until something went wrong. Keep in mind EVERYTHING is imported, so if something breaks or need replacemant under motor plan be prepare to be running around in a ****ty courtsey vehicle why your renault sits in the shop for 6 weeks for your part to come on a boat. Even after motor plan if you keep that long, and it has not broken. There are almost no aftermarket parts available for them, and those that are cost the same price as the original manufacturer parts. Then when you have had enough of the vehicle and decide to sell it and change to a VW or toyota or hyundai like a normal person (there is a reason why many people buy these cars) you find out your car is worth dirt. The value goes to s**t faster than my BMW did rofl. Now im not saying this happens to all renault, but it will happen eventually mechanical things break finished, and that is why things with low support is not a good idea. This is why you must stick to south african Car books, firstly the designs arent the same and the reviews arent the same because the market is different. I wouldve bought a renault RS coupe when it was first launched its a sexy car no lies with that ferrari yellow style tachometer but this was my logic for waiting a while.
 
Hi RiaX,

Thanks for the reply, I just don't think you have read my posts at all or only in bits and pieces.

I CURRENTLY own an Renault Megane R26 LTD, Aftermarket parts are easily avilable from RSTuning, I have received poor service from a number of dealers however excellent service from renault Paarl and this occurs with most brands (I have owned a few cars).

So far aftermarket parts for Renault where very easy to get,

Downpipe (CAT is in the downpipe so this decats at the same time), Intercooler, Turbo modification, CAI, Exhaust and software and all at a very good price.

My first Toyota was a run around car, Corolla D4D which gave me endless headaches and spent more time in the shop than on the road due to the recalls and poor build quality, I also received terrible service from the Richards Bay Toyata (was living there at the time). I also own an Audi A6 2.4, which is a good benchmark for ride quality.

As for your comment about a car that revs to 12000rpm only needing half the torque, thats fantastic news, does the toyota rev to 12000?

The Renault RS was just one option, if you take the high spec version of the toyota you start to get very close to the new Focus ST, Volvo C30 T5, GTI, yes I know all hatchbacks but I want a car that not only has looks but the performance to back it up.

I will say again, I am looking for a track day car and don't think this fits the bill based on what track times I have seen and the clio being a couple of seconds faster, would hate to see what the rs250, opc, etc does to it on the track. but hey maybe see you guys on a track day you prove me wrong and then I feel like a douche for not buying one.

With regards to resale value, my toyota lost just as much value as the rest of my cars, so let's not even waste time going there, as I see it VW would be the way to go if looking at resale value.

All I am curious about is what makes this car better than the rest, if you say looks then I agree 110% but so far I can't agree on anything else.

AS I said before, the car looks fantastic but looking to replace my current track day car and don't think this would be the best bet.

Maybe start a new thread where we can talk the performance/price and then we discuss facts there..... maybe try take emotion out of it as it seems strong in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Peak torque and peak power are not the be all and end all.
The important factor is area under the curve. That indicates the car's ability to provide power throughout the rev range IMHO.

I can punch my car at 3000rpm and have nearly all the kw on tap immediately, and at 7000rpm still have the same power level available. That delivery makes the car extremely drivable and deceptively quick.
You can keep your peaky motors, thanks ;) while you drop 3 gears to get into your power-band, I never left it.
 
tbh at the moment I will not buy French cars no matter how good the reviews are. Their reputation is just too dodgy.

KIA also had a dodgy rep at one stage but they are getting better just like the French cars are getting better reps (it is the dealer support damaging the brand imo) - I had to let go of my Koup after a year beause of a transmission issue which KIA could not fix.

that said I am waiting for the High spec 86 in white, salesman told me he will have one in mid to end Aug
 
@ Spazmatic

No I read a bits of your posts so I didnt get the full story. I know the 86 does not rev up to 12 000 rpm that was an example explaining torque but the point is higher reving equates to better in a performance car. If you serious about using it for a track car then why even bother with a brand new vechicle?

No there is no emotion in this thread the toyota is coupe not a hatch, I only deal with logic. Anyways what type of racing are you planing to do sir? My brother has a volvo C30 T5 polestar ed, its a real pocket rocket. Toyota has the best resale value but it all depends on the car. Toyota sports cars still fetch a pretty penny today. I mean a friend of mine had a 2002 tazz he sold it for 56k a few months ago lol.

Anyways if you a serious for racing then I would say you being stupid by buying a new car and hoping to take it to track events. I would say go buy a car for R10 000 from some scrap yard just for the body and get it tuned and tweaked with the rest of the budget, there cheaper faster than all your cars stating performance vehicle.

ALSO NOTE I'VE SAID THIS MANY TIMES SO I WILL SAY IT AGAIN. THE TOYOTA IS A TOY THAT LOOKS GOOD ITS NOT THE FASTEST CAR IN THE WORLD ITS NOT PRACTICAL, ITS MEANT TO LET YOU HAVE A SPORTS CAR WITHOUT COSTING R600 000 FOR A POSCHE BOSXTER/Z4/SLK/AUDI TT. If you want practicallity good value ect rolled up in a single package then dont consider the 86 or the BRZ its not for you and no amount of debating is going to change that ok.

@ Sinbad yeah AUC is important but at low revs torque has more say at high revs kW has more say. I was keeping things simple for the mentally challenged you see :D , I mean it says "I got 400 nM on tap" like anyone cares. Now if i bring in graphs showing performance outputs, and sectionalise it and calculate AUC, it will have a stroke.
 
Drove it today, supreme. The concept of a boxer engine is epic, and with toyota's injection systems its got some kick. Well Ive been driving all the cars recently so im going to say this, however its subjective from this point.

I drove the c180 coupe and I drove the 86 now, and I can tell you the 86 took off in 3rd gear without even a shudder to switch off at the same pace as the c180 in first. I will admit it slugish at very low rpm 500 - 1000 or so but realistically the car never stays there when its moving and definately not when you playing with it.

Settles it ordering my one on monday, mechanically they the same so the test drive on the standard spec is enough to allow an order on the high spec :)
 
:erm: a car idles at around 800... so I'd imagine every car to be sluggish below that.
 
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