The Bodybuilders Thread: Circuit II

[Emjay]

And enjoy the journey! Eating healthy is difficult in the beginning, but our bodies tend to crave what we feed it. Soon you won't miss any of the junk and sugar.

My motto is to sweat every single day. The weight-loss is really just a side effect. Exercise is the most underutilised antidepressant. Food being the most overused mood enhancer.

 

[Ancalagon]

@bigboy

Rather start with lower intensity exercise like walking. Its "slower", but its a lot better for you.

Even if you were lean and athletic, running all day is bad for you. It spikes your stress hormones, which is bad for your body. Plus, it puts strain on all of your joints - this is true even if you are lean and athletic.

Endurance runners tend to have a higher likelihood of heart problems than people who just walk a lot - this is contrary to what everyone believes about endurance athletes being in top shape. There is a price to pay for that much stress on the body.

The other reason is that, broadly speaking, the body has two energy sources - sugar and fat. Sugar is stored in your muscles and liver in the form of glycogen - you use it whenever you do anything strenuous like running or weightlifting. Its purpose is to provide that quick burst of energy to get you out of danger - its purpose is NOT to allow you to run all day. To be active all day, you need to use your other energy source - fat. The problem with fat is that the energy contained within it cannot be released as quickly as glycogen can. This is why you run out of steam - you run out of glycogen and have nothing left. Your body converts fat too slowly for it to be of much use to you then.

Walking will use a little bit of glycogen and a lot more fat. The body will supply energy for your current activity level from fat first, glycogen second. When fat can't meet your needs, like when running, you use glycogen. If fat can meet your needs, it will be used (in practice, the body will always burn a little glycogen too).

Just walk for an hour a day and keep carbs on the low side, and watch the weight fall off. Skip breakfast now and then.

 

[Lawnchairman]

Its a marathon not a race.

 

[Ancalagon]

Its not even a marathon.

Living healthily needs to be something you do because you enjoy the way it makes you feel. Then you will do it forever, and live a long time because of it. If you see it as a marathon - a gruelling endurance event to get through - you won't look after your health properly.

Think of it like an RPG - you can increase your resistance to things like heart disease and cancer through healthy living. You can probably end up outright immune to diabetes. Increase your strength, dexterity and constitution scores. Even your charisma!

 

[Emjay]

@bigboy

Rather start with lower intensity exercise like walking. Its "slower", but its a lot better for you.

There is new research out that running actually is good for the joints:

Running appears to decrease knee intra-articular pro-inflammatory cytokine concentration and facilitates the movement of COMP from the joint space to the serum.

Heart problems also come into play from genetic factors, over training and athletes that do insane amounts of long distance races without adequate rest. Running really is a very good way to get fit and increase overall health, but if it is done slowly. Low intensity (think zones 1 and 2) exercise is great to start, but we get accustomed to that quickly, and we need to ramp up our training quickly to see sustained results.

 

[Ancalagon]

There is new research out that running actually is good for the joints:



Heart problems also come into play from genetic factors, over training and athletes that do insane amounts of long distance races without adequate rest. Running really is a very good way to get fit and increase overall health, but if it is done slowly. Low intensity (think zones 1 and 2) exercise is great to start, but we get accustomed to that quickly, and we need to ramp up our training quickly to see sustained results.

Don't take my word for it - read this article by Mark Sisson.

He was an elite endurance athlete for many years.

Yes, a run now and then isn't going to kill you. But many people think that the only way to get fit and lose weight is to spend hours every week running. This is actually bad for you. It adds up.

 

[Emjay]

Don't take my word for it - read this article by Mark Sisson.

He was an elite endurance athlete for many years.

Yes, a run now and then isn't going to kill you. But many people think that the only way to get fit and lose weight is to spend hours every week running. This is actually bad for you. It adds up.

Comparing an endurance athlete to someone starting out their fitness journey is a bit silly. Do you understand how much endurance athletes train in a week? They go up to 30 hours per week. James Cunnama (who just won the EL Ironman 70.3) trains 4 hours a day. There is no comparison. Running 3 or 5kms every few days is better for overall health. He is doing some body weight exercises and cardio, so this is the ideal mix. I was lifting for months, and did some bike and maybe running, and I was still unfit as anything. The weight dropped off, but I couldn't run up a flight of stairs without becoming out of breath. My core was weak, and I had zero endurance. Adding in functional fitness, lifting, and all the triathlon sports has taken my fitness to a new level.

 

[Emjay]

Oh, yes, I am about to read Primal Endurance as well. I agree with the concept that endurance athletes over train and are not eating properly, but don't agree that walking is better than running.

 

[Ancalagon]

Oh, yes, I am about to read Primal Endurance as well. I agree with the concept that endurance athletes over train and are not eating properly, but don't agree that walking is better than running.

Then don't read primal endurance, because that is exactly what Mark Sisson says. He wrote primal endurance with the notion that you should not run. But if you have to, do so in a primal way. Basically, there is no reason to run.

He tends to recommends doing sprints and a lot of low level activity - probably a lot lower than you are used to. Doing sprints is in fact better for fitness than running is - again, this is what Mark Sisson says.

Its not an invalid comparison. If you run for longer than 30 minutes at a time, your cortisol levels start to spike quickly - along with general inflammation. Most people who run, run more than they should. If you keep your runs to maybe 3 hours total per week, that's not so bad. But the runners I know are not like that, they are more like junkies. They think if they can just run an extra 10km, they can lose that extra bit of fat. I'd guess you are the same. Just run a little more - soon you are covering 100km per week. And every single runner I know battles with injury or illness all the time - without exception. Foot problems, hip problems, ITB, you name it they have it.

 

[JerryMungo]

Doing sprints is in fact better for fitness than running is - again, this is what Mark Sisson says.

I don't care what Mark Sisson says lol. Try training for an iron man without running. Fitness is a general word. You can be fit for one thing or fit in a general health sense, but not fit for a particular purpose.

 

[JerryMungo]

And enjoy the journey! Eating healthy is difficult in the beginning, but our bodies tend to crave what we feed it. Soon you won't miss any of the junk and sugar.

My motto is to sweat every single day. The weight-loss is really just a side effect. Exercise is the most underutilised antidepressant. Food being the most overused mood enhancer.

Agree with this - if you can change the mindset of 'exercise because it's good for you' to 'exercise because it makes you feel awesome' then you won't need any more motivation. The same goes for eating well.

 

[Ancalagon]

I don't care what Mark Sisson says lol. Try training for an iron man without running. Fitness is a general word. You can be fit for one thing or fit in a general health sense, but not fit for a particular purpose.

A lot of people have now switched to doing marathon training without those long hard runs you are used to. read here, for instance.

But, before that, I'd question why you wanted to do an iron man in the first place. You're shortening your lifespan.

 

[Emjay]

I'd guess you are the same.

Nope - I run maybe 20km a week, swim around 5km and ride around 50km. I do a lot of functional fitness and lifting though - which translates well into the endurance sports. I don't see many other endurance athletes doing this as they just think a run / cycle / swim would be better. But proper fitness is going to need some time on the road or bike. I don't really see any other way to get the heart pumping and used to that level of effort. The idea is to get fit enough to lower the resting heart rate. A lower resting heart rate usually translates into overall better health and longer lifespan.

I am scaling up for a half Ironman over the next year or so, but that's just a personal goal, and probably a once off thing. And I know it's going to cause damage if not done properly. I am going to read the book, and will report back on his conclusions once I am done.

Edit:

I might add that I am 34. Even with my heavy training load, I have zero injuries and am getting very strong. Problem is that if I don't have a goal, I just won't train. And I managed to strengthen a very bad knee in the process.

 

[bigboy529]

Guys thanks for all the advice. I should have said jogging rather than running, for now I only jog. The guy who's helping me knows what he is doing, he already said he won't push me to run for now jogging is fine, but he will start pushing me on the situps and pushups quite soon. On my first day I for example did 3 laps around the athletics track of which 1 was walking and 2 was jogging, doesn't sound like a lot I know, but felt like I was going to pass out. After that I also did 50 crunches and pushups. He said once I'm a bit fitter we'll also go in to the gym.

 

[JerryMungo]

But, before that, I'd question why you wanted to do an iron man in the first place. You're shortening your lifespan.

Tell Wally Hayward that...

Wallace ("Wally") Henry Hayward (10 July 1908 – 28 April 2006) was a South African endurance athlete with a 60-year career. He has won the Comrades Marathon five times and completed the distance of around 90 km the last time just before his eighty-first birthday.

On that subject, why do you breathe oxygen?
https://hammeringshield.wordpress.com/2013/05/26/how-breathing-is-slowly-killing-us/

 

[Emjay]

Jogging and running are the same thing bigboy529. Sprinting is different though as it engages the core more.

If you are going to disregard everything we said, why ask for help? You don't have to be fitter to go to the gym. Just go lift things according to a BB program. I started on a very easy program by Lee Labrada as a complete newbie, and it took me a week to get into it with zero help. You don't need anyone to help you through this journey, just a little knowledge and a plan.

 

[Ancalagon]

On that subject, why do you breathe oxygen?
https://hammeringshield.wordpress.com/2013/05/26/how-breathing-is-slowly-killing-us/

Please don't come here with your strawman arguments.

If we follow your argument about oxygen, you might as well drink a whole bottle of vodka every day. But you don't do that, do you?

And please don't bother with anecdotal evidence - find a study that says that endurance athletes live LONGER than people who engage in moderate exercise. Just one study.

Hint: There are already studies which prove endurance athletes are more likely to have heart problems than most people, so the above study might be difficult to find.

 

[Salt]

I've started a course of DAA - will let you guys know how it works for me personally.

On another note - I am on the lookout for a new stimulant free PWO. TNT don't make the Kevlar anymore and I want to try something different to the Nutritech VASO NO3. Any suggestions?

 

[Emjay]

Please don't come here with your strawman arguments.

If we follow your argument about oxygen, you might as well drink a whole bottle of vodka every day. But you don't do that, do you?

And please don't bother with anecdotal evidence - find a study that says that endurance athletes live LONGER than people who engage in moderate exercise. Just one study.

Hint: There are already studies which prove endurance athletes are more likely to have heart problems than most people, so the above study might be difficult to find.

Here is something that is probably just as interesting.

In summary, meeting the recommended guidelines by either moderate or vigorous-intensity activities was associated with nearly the maximum longevity benefit. We observed this benefit threshold around 3–5 times the recommended leisure-time physical activity minimum, and no excess risk at 10+ times the recommended minimum. These findings are informative for individuals at both ends of the physical activity spectrum: they provide important evidence to inactive individuals by showing that modest amounts of activity provide substantial benefit for postponing mortality, while at the same time reassuring very active individuals of no exercise-associated increase in mortality risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4451435/

Only a very small percentage of endurance athletes develop heart problems. The rate of sudden cardiac death among marathon participants is one in 100,000! The study around this shows that extreme endurance training can cause temporary changes to the heart's structure (stretching of tissue). These factors return to normal after one week. This is why it is very important to get enough rest between major events and why most good programs have taper off periods.

 

[JerryMungo]

Please don't come here with your strawman arguments.

If we follow your argument about oxygen, you might as well drink a whole bottle of vodka every day. But you don't do that, do you?

And please don't bother with anecdotal evidence - find a study that says that endurance athletes live LONGER than people who engage in moderate exercise. Just one study.

Hint: There are already studies which prove endurance athletes are more likely to have heart problems than most people, so the above study might be difficult to find.

Most people. I have to see that study :crylaugh:

No need to get upset, my point is I THINK you have bigger things to worry about than staying fit by running. That's all.