The Brexit Thread

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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Nope I don't keep self owning. Do you have problems with basic comprehension? Do tell me about why Honda's Turkey operations are also disappearing. Also did you notice they are only formally closing THREE YEARS from now? If they were worried about tariffs, theyd be closing much faster!
That's not how capital investment works. You just don't shut up shop overnight. Planning and scheduling big moves takes years and years.

Chris_the_Brit said:
The EU-Japan FTA means there is no incentive to build in Europe, hence why no car production is going to any of the EU countries. If Brexit is the main cause as Remoaners likely you are making it out to be (which is false), then you'd think they'd be moving car production to a country inside the EU, which they are not.
This makes zero sense. Because of the FTA, they don't have to move to a country inside the EU. With the UK in the EU they have the benefit of zero tariffs, plus proximity to the biggest market in the world.

The UK has been the gateway to Europe for a lot of auto manufacturers for a long time. If they're going to be hit with tariffs it makes no sense to keep it that way.

It's not only because of Brexit, similar to Nissan, but it played a significant role.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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Nobody forced you to get in.

We (the frogs) actually used to refuse you, and you insisted. Bunch of flip-floppers!

Nemo auditur propriam suam turpitudinem allegans.
"You"?

I'm not a Brit fyi, I have no skin in this game whatsoever other than cheering on self-determination.

I believe in self-determination so strongly I'm even supporting a nation that ought to be somewhat of a natural enemy, what with boer wars and concentration camps and what not. If they succeed in breaking away from one of the quintessential anti-liberty symbols of our time it just might serve as an example for others to follow, and they would have done the world a massive favour, go Brits!

PS: "the frogs" also seem a bit fed up with the status quo, 14 successive weeks of large scale protests, I might have to stop the whole surrender monkey labeling if they keep it up
 

access

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I’ve heard 10% mentioned, but any duty is more than the 0% at present and 0% in the future by moving the line to Japan.

Honda had said it was going to cost them tens of millions of pounds in the event of a bad Brexit, they probably decided it was cheaper and more advantageous in the long term to spend those tens of millions on upgrading a home plant to make the line.
ok, but i meant charges when exporting from europe to elsewhere, usa or aus. etc, they have to do something with their 60 000+ civics they do not sell in europe every year.
 

Chris_the_Brit

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From people who actually know what they are talking about (not the shouty mainstream media journalists who effectively act as handlers for Brussels). I even bolded the key part for the people who skim over articles!

Opinion: why Honda is set to shut its Swindon factory

The news that Honda is set to close its Swindon manufacturing plant by 2022 is a major shock, and a huge blow. To the UK car industry. To Swindon. And, most importantly, to the 3500 workers set to lose their jobs – and the thousands of others who work at firms that supply and service it.

The Japanese firm has been building cars and engines at the plant since 1989, and as recently as last autumn the firm said it was committed to production there, regardless of the outcome of Brexit negotiations.

It’s hard not to consider Honda’s decision in the context of other bad news to hit the car industry in the UK, such as Jaguar Land Rover’s job cuts, or Nissan reversing its decision to build the next-generation X-Trail in Sunderland. It’s natural, then, to try and connect the dots, to try and identify some single ill that has befallen the industry. And, of course, in the current political climate it’s inevitable some will suggest that single ill is Brexit.

Is Brexit uncertainty a factor? Almost certainly. As Jim Holder wrote following Nissan’s X-Trail decision recently, such uncertainty makes it difficult for companies to plan long-term. And car companies need to plan long-term. But it’s not the only reason – or the key reason, in this case.

You have to consider the decline in demand for diesel too: Honda’s Swindon engine plant produced diesel engines. Then there’s the ever-growing rise in popularity of SUVs, which is harming sales of traditional cars such as the Civic – the only model made in Swindon.

And you can’t ignore global trade, such as Donald Trump’s threat to impose huge tariffs on cars imported from Europe into the US – such as the Civic. At the same time, the European Union and Japan recently agreed a trade deal that effectively removes tariffs on Japanese-built cars imported into Europe. That reduces Honda’s need to have a European manufacturing base.

There’s also Honda itself. The firm continues to struggle in Europe, with sales markedly down on a decade ago. Last year it sold just under 135,000 cars in the European market, a three per cent decline on 2017 – and around half its sales of a decade ago.

As a result, it has increasingly focused production in its home country in Japan, at the expense of factories elsewhere. The Swindon factory produced around 160,000 Civic models last year, but at its peak ten years ago its output was around 250,000. This is the latest in a pattern of decline.

All those factors – and more – will have played a role in Honda’s decision. So while it’s important the UK car industry takes every lesson from this latest blow, it’s important to remember this news reflects the wider struggles of the global car industry.
 

Chris_the_Brit

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That's not how capital investment works. You just don't shut up shop overnight. Planning and scheduling big moves takes years and years.



This makes zero sense. Because of the FTA, they don't have to move to a country inside the EU. With the UK in the EU they have the benefit of zero tariffs, plus proximity to the biggest market in the world.

The UK has been the gateway to Europe for a lot of auto manufacturers for a long time. If they're going to be hit with tariffs it makes no sense to keep it that way.

It's not only because of Brexit, similar to Nissan, but it played a significant role.
Actually the fact that Honda are closing down their Turkey plant as well (who have a customs union with the EU) basically means that Honda would have certainly closed the plants down regardless of Brexit. That's the key and most important point here. Also as posted above, and was new information to me, was that the Swindon plant only produces one type of model - the Civic - as outlined has been struggling regardless.
 

access

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From people who actually know what they are talking about (not the shouty mainstream media journalists who effectively act as handlers for Brussels). I even bolded the key part for the people who skim over articles!

Opinion: why Honda is set to shut its Swindon factory
so its another diesel plant and there are additional tariffs among other negative things.... :confused:


you guys complaining about brexit seem frantic to me at the moment
 

Dave

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From people who actually know what they are talking about (not the shouty mainstream media journalists who effectively act as handlers for Brussels). I even bolded the key part for the people who skim over articles!
Opinion: why Honda is set to shut its Swindon factory

Is Brexit uncertainty a factor? Almost certainly.
You missed one bit that should have also been in bold (and appears to be what I said to @access previously).

You can’t stick your fingers in your ears and pretend the problems surrounding Brexit (especially the abortion caused by May, Rees Mogg and the rest of the tories) aren’t having a huge effect on the economy.

Brexit according to a lot of the leave leaders was a Norway option at the referendum, their stupidity and infighting has caused this to become a Tory suicide pact for the country.
 

f2wohf

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"You"?

I'm not a Brit fyi, I have no skin in this game whatsoever other than cheering on self-determination.

I believe in self-determination so strongly I'm even supporting a nation that ought to be somewhat of a natural enemy, what with boer wars and concentration camps and what not. If they succeed in breaking away from one of the quintessential anti-liberty symbols of our time it just might serve as an example for others to follow, and they would have done the world a massive favour, go Brits!

PS: "the frogs" also seem a bit fed up with the status quo, 14 successive weeks of large scale protests, I might have to stop the whole surrender monkey labeling if they keep it up
Bwahahahaha.

Large scale being 1500 people in Paris last week.
 

Chris_the_Brit

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Wait, I've even got a better source: the Honda executive himself.

Honda: This is not a Brexit related issue

Honda’s most senior executive in Europe was interviewed on the Today Programme to explain Honda’s decision to close its Swindon plant. Honda could not have been clearer: “This is not a Brexit-related issue for us.”

At a time when poorly-performing companies like Flybmi are only too keen to blame Brexit to cover up for their own business failings, Honda’s decision to explicitly rule out Brexit as a factor is particularly notable. Naturally this has not stopped many Remainers from spitefully gloating over the demise of thousands of jobs in their desperate pursuit of an ill-informed ‘told-you-so’ moment…

What Honda did blame were the seismic shifts in the automobile industry in recent years, particularly the sudden move towards electrification, fuelled by the diesel scandal and generally poor demand. Turkey is also facing the closure of its Honda plant – despite being in a customs union with the EU…

What has also been a major factor is the new EU-Japan trade deal, which removes a major incentive for Japanese car makes to manufacture in Europe as they will soon be able to export cars tariff-free directly from Japan. So much for the supposedly sacrosanct importance of geographic proximity in trade…
 

Chris_the_Brit

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You missed one bit that should have also been in bold (and appears to be what I said to @access previously).

You can’t stick your fingers in your ears and pretend the problems surrounding Brexit (especially the abortion caused by May, Rees Mogg and the rest of the tories) aren’t having a huge effect on the economy.

Brexit according to a lot of the leave leaders was a Norway option at the referendum, their stupidity and infighting has caused this to become a Tory suicide pact for the country.
You just making it up as you go along these days?

Real Wages Rise, Employment Surges, Unemployment Plummets

New labour market data from the ONS has revealed that in the last quarter of last year, 167,000 more people became employed. 2018 ended with 444,000 more people in work than a year before. The UK’s employment rate now stands at the joint-highest it has ever been since records began in 1971. Meanwhile almost 60,000 fewer people are relying on zero-hours contracts…

The unemployment rate has plummeted too, with as low levels not being since since the end of 1974. Unemployment fell by 100,000 over the course of the year, meaning every day 274 unemployed people found a job. Meanwhile, wages have risen again by 3.4%, and excluding inflation real wages are up by 1.3%. Despite Brexit, Britain’s jobs miracle continues…
 

Dave

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You just making it up as you go along these days?

Real Wages Rise, Employment Surges, Unemployment Plummets
And that has what to do with what I said?

Are you denying that since the referendum the economy hasn’t been battered and large companies aren’t downsizing or moving operations elsewhere?

PS

Quoting a Brexiteer blog isn’t really the way to make people believe you. If you actually had any personal experience you’d know the Tories have manipulated the jobless figures by excluding certain groups (like those on ESA) and people on zero hour contracts are miraculously now considered to be in full employment. People on Universal Credit who are sanctioned are also not considered in the unemployment figures anymore.

Wages are also still well down from their pre-2009 level, but don’t let worry you either, down by around 3% in real terms when compared to 2008.
 
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NarrowBandFtw

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Bwahahahaha.

Large scale being 1500 people in Paris last week.
You should stop reading what the government wants you to read and check some other sources, fyi RT shows a live feed every weekend, without ANY editing, you can bloody well count more than 1500 yourself if you have the time.

Don't be so gullible dude.
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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"None of this has come to pass"

Neither has brexit, so wtf is the point of this idiotic article? Measure when brexit exists, in fact, measure 40 years after brexit happened to have a proper fair comparison with EU servitude.
Try reading the article before replying with your robotic response. You'll figure it out.
 

OrbitalDawn

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I have, it only takes about 30 seconds and it is all predicated on something that has not happened.

Complete and utter tosh.
Either you haven't or you didn't comprehend it very well. They made promises about things that have already happened.

Promises made and already broken are not predicated on something happening in the future.
 

Dave

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I have, it only takes about 30 seconds and it is all predicated on something that has not happened.
Having had a look it’s apparent you couldn’t have read it as you claim to have, it’s more than 30 seconds of reading and OD is right, it’s a summation of referendum promises that should have already happened and haven’t.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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Either you haven't or you didn't comprehend it very well. They made promises about things that have already happened.

Promises made and already broken are not predicated on something happening in the future.
Jesus, I now there is absolutely no point in bothering, but if you insist, perhaps someone with a brain will read this:
"Brexit will be easy, and have no downsides"
  1. brexit has not happened yet
  2. only one idiot said it would have no downsides, mind you that same idiot's quotes are used for the entire article, that one idiot does NOT REPRESENT all of government or all of brexit
  3. brexit could be very easy, even now, that is not a past event, all that is required is a negotiating team with balls and the mandate to use them
and so on and so forth for the other 10 bullshit "promises"
 

NarrowBandFtw

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Having had a look it’s apparent you couldn’t have read it as you claim to have, it’s more than 30 seconds of reading and OD is right, it’s a summation of referendum promises that should have already happened and haven’t.
If you can't scan 1500 large font words in 30 seconds and get the gist of it that's on you, not me. It's not even a full article, just a collection of quotes, most of which are redundant. Really now ...

and no, see above, they haven't all magically happened, just like brexit has not happened

Far be it from me to defend a government that is 100% anti-brexit though, they have done their level best to mess it
up and have earned nothing but fierce criticism. It would be great if that criticism was indeed fierce and not this lazy rubbish however.
 
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