The Brexit Thread

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Chris_the_Brit said:
Actually regarding GEs, the Fixed-Term Parliament Act legislates for an election five years (or earlier if parliament so wishes). It's not simply a matter of opinion.

Regarding referenda...yes you are right...but then what message are you sending if simple ignore the result? A way to ensure a degree of stability is to respect the wishes of the electorate.

If you want extremists to thrive, do stuff that pisses a hell of a lot of people off. Ignoring a referendum result - which BOTH Remain and Leave said they'd respect (see my video previous post) - is an extremely dangerous precedent and it is what many Remainers are ignoring. The fact that many of them (including some in this thread) think it can be just simply ignored without any consequences is sky-in-the-pie thinking.

How can you seriously say, with a straight face, the UK lives in a democracy while ignoring a referendum result? It would make many tin-pot dictatorships in Africa look more democratic.
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Once again it may no longer be the wishes of the electorate. Its the same reason one doesn't elect a leader for life (namely the general election reference).
 
phaktza said:
So is there a specific time frame in British Law regarding the length between referendums? Who has decided on this?

"we only had a general election 4 years ago, let's postpone for another 36 as its unlikely the population has changed its mind in such a short space of time!"
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No you are of the opinion that the referendum has been action'd according to the wishes of the people who WON the referendum? How do you compare this to 1975?
 
Pitbull said:
No you are of the opinion that the referendum has been action'd according to the wishes of the people who WON the referendum? How do you compare this to 1975?
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So what if its actioned or not - if the consequences are too dire (for what may well be the majority of the population) then it should be up to the supposed leaders to ask "are you really sure?"

TBH I don't care if this is the death knell for the UK - because it's a tiny island that doesn't have anything to offer the rest of the world.

"Yes Scotland"
 
phaktza said:
So what if its actioned or not - if the consequences are too dire (for what may well be the majority of the population) then it should be up to the supposed leaders to ask "are you really sure?"

TBH I don't care if this is the death knell for the UK - because it's a tiny island that doesn't have anything to offer the rest of the world.

"Yes Scotland"
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You know how a referendum works right? You compared it to 75 not me :D
 
Pitbull said:
You know how a referendum works right? You compared it to 75 not me :D
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Yes, you gauge the overall mood of the population and ask a question, such as "are you really sure?"

Edit: you realise this should be about what the people want and not "doing it because that's how it's done"
 
Dave said:
What?

How can you compare an advisory referendum (that has been taken through the courts and one side of which faced a criminal investigation) to democracy in Africa?
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But all referenda in the UK have been acted upon...1975 referendum was also advisory then as was the Scottish Independence and that weird Lib Dem referendum. Saying it was advisory is a weasel term that is legally true but politically explosive (not to mention there are many clips from Remoaner politicians acting as if it wasnt advisory).

Remain will never be investigated for criminal investigation simply because the Electoral Commission is part of the politic establishment in the UK.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
But all referenda in the UK have been acted upon...1975 referendum was also advisory then as was the Scottish Independence and that weird Lib Dem referendum. Saying it was advisory is a weasel term that is legally true but politically explosive (not to mention there are many clips from Remoaner politicians acting as if it wasnt advisory).

Remain will never be investigated for criminal investigation simply because the Electoral Commission is part of the politic establishment in the UK.
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I still feel that this whole issue, including the investigation, overlooks the fact that this should reflect the mood of Britain.

Democracy, unfortunately, is flawed.
 
phaktza said:
Once again it may no longer be the wishes of the electorate. Its the same reason one doesn't elect a leader for life (namely the general election reference).
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It was the wishes of the electorate when it counted. And I'm sceptical of the current poll leads by Remain. Why you may ask?

Well Remain has been on 24/7 campaign mode since losing the referendum, Leave hasnt. And you should read the blog from a bloke called Dominic Cummings (Google it). He is not a politician but was a big cheese in Vote Leave and he reckons Leave would win again because he'd get people to vote for Leave to show two fingers to the political establishment i.e it won't be only on pros/cons of EU membership. I would not dare underestimate him.
 
phaktza said:
Yes, you gauge the overall mood of the population and ask a question, such as "are you really sure?"

Edit: you realise this should be about what the people want and not "doing it because that's how it's done"
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And then? After that another are you really really sure?

Maybe one more after that?
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
It was the wishes of the electorate when it counted. And I'm sceptical of the current poll leads by Remain. Why you may ask?

Well Remain has been on 24/7 campaign mode since losing the referendum, Leave hasnt. And you should read the blog from a bloke called Dominic Cummings (Google it). He is not a politician but was a big cheese in Vote Leave and he reckons Leave would win again because he'd get people to vote for Leave to show two fingers to the political establishment i.e it won't be only on pros/cons of EU membership. I would not dare underestimate him.
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But then we also have the flip side of the coin where Leave effectively lied and pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.

The general population is in possession of more facts these days.
 
Pitbull said:
And then? After that another are you really really sure?

Maybe one more after that?
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Populism and not common sense won the day last time. People are in possession of more facts.

The referendum was one on a fallacy that will possibly impoverish Britain for generations. Is it worth not exploring all options?
 
phaktza said:
But then we also have the flip side of the coin where Leave effectively lied and pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.

The general population is in possession of more facts these days.
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Everyone is economical about the truth in the heat of the campaign (Remain lied as well FYI). More importantly the central tenets of the Leave campaign were - no control over immigration, foreign judges ruling over the UK and partial removal of sovereignty were 100% true.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Everyone is economical about the truth in the heat of the campaign (Remain lied as well FYI). More importantly the central tenets of the Leave campaign were - no control over immigration, foreign judges ruling over the UK and partial removal of sovereignty were 100% true.
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But it's the parts they neglected to mention.

End of the day Britain loses either way, just with Remain they would've "remained" relevant.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Everyone is economical about the truth in the heat of the campaign (Remain lied as well FYI). More importantly the central tenets of the Leave campaign were - no control over immigration, foreign judges ruling over the UK and partial removal of sovereignty were 100% true.
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What happened to £350 mill more per week to the NHS? That was pretty central. I reckon 40% voted for that , and 12% voted for the other stuff
 
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