The Brexit Thread

[Gingerbeardman]

Very disingenuous to try and edit an old post to change its meaning, as I stated, my discussion with him was only about his fake news story relating to the border fence/wall.

So now it's disingenuous to put the corrections into the post that you demanded to correct him on to get you to respond to the substance of his point about the EU, the issue that you were talking about before you started nitpicking about the fscking wall?

You are almost trolling by changing to change what the discussion was about. Just in case you are still unclear, the entire substance of the discussion was the EU sanctions/reprimands that Hungary didn’t get for their border fence. NOTHING ELSE.

Lol, so now I am to believe that everything you said before that point in the conversation was meaningless noise, according to you.

I hope that clears up your state of confusion.

Yeah, I'm not confused, don't worry.

 

[dw...]

So now it's disingenuous to put the corrections into the post that you demanded to correct him on to get you to respond to the substance of his point about the EU, the issue that you were talking about before you started nitpicking about the fscking wall?


Lol, so now I am to believe that everything you said before that point in the conversation was meaningless noise, according to you.


Yeah, I'm not confused, don't worry.

There are some seriously weird people in this thread, are you somehow related to Narrowband? You’re really eager to try and support and argue for him.

It might seem a strange principle, but I’m only really happy to discuss the points I actually made, not your edited version of the events after the fact. I called him up on a single point, and that’s the point I am/was willing to discuss, no other nonsense or noise you want to introduce. I didn’t demand anything of him/her, simply pointed out his single fake news claim.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

There are some seriously weird people in this thread, are you somehow related to Narrowband? You’re really eager to try and support and argue for him.

It might seem a strange principle, but I’m only really happy to discuss the points I actually made, not your edited version of the events after the fact. I called him up on a single point, and that’s the point I am/was willing to discuss, no other nonsense or noise you want to introduce. I didn’t demand anything of him/her, simply pointed out his single fake news claim.

They are tag team members from the trump thread. They must rub off on reach other

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

As I understand it Mr Angry, the link you quoted talks about them not taking their quota share of refugees who are already in the EU, it isn't referencing them obstructing or preventing migrants at their southern borders.

and only a single digit IQ citizen would fail to see the patently obvious connection, well done

As an aside, are you always so angry and confrontational when you have a discussion?

so for your next trick you choose to assume you can deduce emotional state from mere words alone? yet another fail, wrong again btw

 

[Gingerbeardman]

There are some seriously weird people in this thread, are you somehow related to Narrowband? You’re really eager to try and support and argue for him.

I'm rather tired of remainers painting the EU in shades of unicorn. So now I'm in the process of figuring out if this white knighting of yours is based upon facts or values by observing how you react to the facts.

It might seem a strange principle, but I’m only really happy to discuss the points I actually made, not your edited version of the events after the fact.

I didn't make any edits to any points you made. I made an edit to NBFTW's post based upon the corrections you would have him make, so as to remove the pointless sticking point that detracts totally from what NBFTW was actually saying.

I called him up on a single point, and that’s the point I am/was willing to discuss, no other nonsense or noise you want to introduce. I didn’t demand anything of him/her, simply pointed out his single fake news claim.

Nonsense. You didn't merely call him up on a single point, you called him up on multiple points in a chain of comments aimed at debunking his initial claim, starting here:

https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/the-brexit-thread.866714/post-23549990

 

[dw...]

They are tag team members from the trump thread. They must rub off on reach other

They do seem strange, a person corrects a single issue that is wrong and they want to turn that into a treatise on the entire E.U. problem.

 

[dw...]

and only a single digit IQ citizen would fail to see the patently obvious connection, well done


so for your next trick you choose to assume you can deduce emotional state from mere words alone? yet another fail, wrong again btw

Wow, you really are the Mr Angry, do you find it difficult to hold a discussion without all the angry insults?

 

[dw...]

I'm rather tired of remainers painting the EU in shades of unicorn. So now I'm in the process of figuring out if this white knighting of yours is based upon facts or values by observing how you react to the facts.


I didn't make any edits to any points you made. I made an edit to NBFTW's post based upon the corrections you would have him make, so as to remove the pointless sticking point that detracts totally from what NBFTW was actually saying.


Nonsense. You didn't merely call him up on a single point, you called him up on multiple points in a chain of comments aimed at debunking his initial claim, starting here:

https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/the-brexit-thread.866714/post-23549990

Umm, Gingerbread, no, why would you want to go back to a totally separate discussion?

The current discussion started with the claim that the E.U. had officially reprimanded Hungary for the border fence which is patently incorrect.

Do you wish to discuss that point?

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Umm, Gingerbread, no, why would you want to go back to a totally separate discussion?

The current discussion started with the claim that the E.U. had officially reprimanded Hungary for the border fence which is patently incorrect.

Do you wish to discuss that point?

It's an unbroken chain of replies, if you're going to be so dishonest about your own participation, why even bother to post?

Doesn’t this article indicate that EU migrants can be restricted?



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25134521

The reality says different:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_United_Kingdom_renegotiation_of_European_Union_membership

But your link says the same?

compare that to what Cameron actually "demanded" and tell me who is on control here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

That also seems to agree with the fact that there are limitations and controls available.

read carefully, Cameron conceded almost every single thing to the EU despite promising his electorate in advance

while "limitations" may be available, what does it say about sovereignty and ultimate control when the EU has the final say in all these matters?

Non-EU members, even those with strict trade agreements with the EU, simply do not bow down to the EU in this fashion. Which is the core of brexit: actually being in control instead of going hat in hand to Brussels every time you want to make a change to your own country.

Hang on, why are you debating about Cameron? I don’t care about him, I thought we were discussing that EU member states do have some control over immigration of eu citizens and can deport those who arrive and don’t work or commit crime?

Disingenuous or just ill-informed?

Cameron staked his entire political career, and indeed the referendum itself, on the theory that he could arrange "more control" for the UK's EU membership. He was sent home with his tail tucked between his legs, forced to allow the referendum, lost and resigned.

Cameron is the quintessential example and proof that no, the UK does NOT have control as an EU member state. May just reaffirmed that by also failing dismally at "negotiating" with the EU, on literally every hard line issue it is the EU's decision that stands, noone else's.

Ergo: the only way to have real control, not piss-willy faux control where you still need daddy's permission for every choice you make, is to not be a member state.

I think it looks like you’re fixated on Cameron rather than what the rules actually allow.

so disingenuous, thanks for clarifying

what the rules say on paper in a hypothetical sense is worlds apart from the reality, as demonstrated by Cameron, as demonstrated by May, as demonstrated by Poland who got reprimanded for the way they deal with their domestic press, as demonstrated by Hungary who got reprimanded for erecting physical borders to stop the influx of migrants

are exactly what a court would use to rule on if a case for noncompliance was ever started against a member state. Everything else you’ve written is just white noise and personal opinion.

There don’t seem to be any official censures for the Hungarian walls, they’ve even built some between themselves and other EU states without any action being taken against them by the EU and even attempted to get the EU to pay towards the fences.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier

yeah the actual examples I gave you are "personal opinion"


ahem *cough* ...
https://www.dw.com/en/eu-parliament...anctions-procedure-against-hungary/a-45459720

No, Narrowband, nothing about the “erecting physical borders” or even a wall in your link.



Now now, it’s not good to try and spin what your said into some sort of fake news story, your exact words were that Hungary was reprimanded for “erecting physical borders”, and as you’ve so ably shown, that hasn’t happened.

yeah nothing at all ...


pure coincidence that this was the only issue they clashed with the EU on before the EU voted to censure hey? exactly how blind are you?

As I understand it Mr Angry, the link you quoted talks about them not taking their quota share of refugees who are already in the EU, it isn't referencing them obstructing or preventing migrants at their southern borders.

As an aside, are you always so angry and confrontational when you have a discussion?

Distinction without a difference, bud. You're nitpicking over nothing.

 

[dw...]

Gingerbread and Narrowband must be twins or spouses to be so intimately involved in defending like that. Walls of text that don’t even show an actual view on the single point currently under discussion.


So, Gingerbread, what’s your position on the lack of sanctions or reprimands from the EU concerning the Hungarian border fences?

 

[Hamish McPanji]

It's an unbroken chain of replies, if you're going to be so dishonest about your own participation, why even bother to post?

Thanks for the summary. It just confirms that DW is right though.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Gingerbread and Narrowband must be twins or spouses to be so intimately involved in defending like that. Walls of text that don’t even show an actual view on the single point currently under discussion.

Doesn’t this article indicate that EU migrants can be restricted?

EU migrants cannot in fact be freely restricted, because as a matter of EU policy countries that try to do so are penalised under various pretexts that basically equate nationalism to fascism. While you continue to refuse to acknowledge that you tried to make this point, and then pretend that you are engaged in a different conversation than the one your responses in fact provoked, there is actually no conversation to be had.

So, Gingerbread, what’s your position on the lack of sanctions or reprimands from the EU concerning the Hungarian border fences?

My position is that it is an irrelevant nitpick that dismisses the substance of the post you were responding to, which was infact aimed at getting you to acknowledge that the EU does in fact engage in punitive actions against states that don't toe the pro-immigration line, contrary to what you would have everyone believe with your nonsense article about the curtailment of immigrants being fine.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Wow, you really are the Mr Angry, do you find it difficult to hold a discussion without all the angry insults?

keep digging that hole son, you can appeal to emotions all you want, only problem is there aren't any emotions involved here, well at least not on my part, I wouldn't be surprised if you're sucking these responses out of your thumb in the fetal position from your safe space deep inside your echo chamber ... but I won't make that assumption like you seem to be so eager to do

EU members have nothing like the sovereign decision making power of non-members, cold hard fact

 

[dw...]

EU migrants cannot in fact be freely restricted

We’ve already proven they can be, but you appear to be a rather dishonest debater, so I suppose you’re unlikely to concede any point that you disagree with, even when a point is proven by links.

EU members have nothing like the sovereign decision making power of non-members, cold hard fact

Who said they did? Why are trying to introduce another different scenario into the discussion?

Don’t be like Gingerbread now.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

We’ve already proven they can be, but you appear to be a rather dishonest debater, so I suppose you’re unlikely to concede any point that you disagree with, even when a point is proven by links.

The links have refuted your claim, you have yet to acknowledge that the links have refuted your claim, because you want to get into a pissing contest about whether or not the sanctions also happens to make reference to a border wall, which is only one small aspect of immigration policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45498514

The European Parliament has voted to pursue unprecedented disciplinary action against Hungary over alleged breaches of the EU's core values.
Prime Minister Viktor Orban's government has been accused of attacks on the media, minorities, and the rule of law - charges which he denies.
More than two-thirds of MEPs backed the censure motion - the first such vote against a member state under EU rules.
If also approved by national leaders, Hungary could face punitive measures.
The ultimate sanction, the suspension of Hungary's voting rights, is unlikely as Poland is likely to veto any such move.

The BBC's Nick Thorpe in Budapest says Mr Orban appears increasingly isolated among European conservatives but is being applauded by nationalist parties.

What is Hungary accused of?
Since coming to power, Mr Orban's government has taken a hardline stance against immigration. It introduced a law which made it a criminal offence for lawyers and activists to help asylum seekers, under the banner of "facilitating illegal immigration".

If you don't play the EU's migrants game, they accuse you of violating the EU's core principles. You haven't bothered to acknowledge this fact despite the fact that it has been pointed out to you multiple times, and yet you want to cry about dishonesty while you can't even acknowledge the contents of your own goddamn statements.

 

[dw...]

The links have refuted your claim, you have yet to acknowledge that the links have refuted your claim, because you want to get into a pissing contest about whether or not the sanctions also happens to make reference to a border wall, which is only one small aspect of immigration policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45498514

No mention of the only item under discussion by me, the border fence. Unless I’ve missed it and if so, I would be really grateful if you could screenshot and post the paragraph referring to the border fence.

Can I thank you in advance for showing where I’ve missed it.

If you don't play the EU's migrants game, they accuse you of violating the EU's core principles. You haven't bothered to acknowledge this fact despite the fact that it has been pointed out to you multiple times, and yet you want to cry about dishonesty while you can't even acknowledge the contents of your own goddamn statements.

That’s called an opinion, and of course, everyone, including you, is entitled to one of those.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Why are trying to introduce another different scenario into the discussion?

 

[dw...]

Well, Narrowband, he/she is, they are trying to reinterpret the prevention of migrants accessing the southern borders of Hungary by the imposition of border fences with a completely different issue of Hungary refusing to accept a quota of those already granted refugee status by the EU in other EU countries. Contrary to what some here seem to believe, they are two separate issues.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

No mention of the only item under discussion by me, the border fence. Unless I’ve missed it and if so, I would be really grateful if you could screenshot and post the paragraph referring to the border fence.

Tell me something, why did you even bring up the issue of the border fence? Why does it even matter to you one way or the other?

That’s called an opinion, and of course, everyone, including you, is entitled to one of those.

That's called a reported fact, as per the BBC story, and as per the story from DW which NBFTW quoted which said exactly the same thing, which you then ignored in its entirety, because you got a hard-on for stories about border walls.

 

[dw...]

Tell me something, why did you even bring up the issue of the border fence? Why does it even matter to you one way or the other?


That's called a reported fact, as per the BBC story, and as per the story from DW which NBFTW quoted which said exactly the same thing, which you then ignored in its entirety, because you got a hard-on for stories about border walls.

as demonstrated by Hungary who got reprimanded for erecting physical borders to stop the influx of migrants

Maybe because it’s the actual statement that was made and replied to.

I’m seriously beginning to get the feeling you’re just trolling now, if it continue I’ll have to re-evaluate having a discussion with you so if I start ignoring you, you’ll understand why.