The Brexit Thread

Dave

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Brexit deal has been approved by Parliament*.
*second reading was passed, it's expected to be approved and become law in January.

Boris Johnson has taken the first step towards delivering his pre-election promise to take the UK out of the EU on 31 January.

The prime minister, flush with his newly-acquired House of Commons majority, saw MPs vote in favour of his EU Withdrawal Agreement Bill by 359 votes to 234 at its second reading, a majority of 124.

The legislation, which will return to parliament for its final stages after Christmas, is needed to ratify Mr Johnson's Brexit deal - which he agreed with the EU in October - and put the exit agreement into UK law.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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the deviation from the issues listed are actually bad for the average Brit...
how is that even REMOTELY possible?

the government you vote for directly, and the justice system you effectively chose, having the final say
versus
some socialist wannabe superpower having the final say


there' no comparison, if the end result of the EUSSR seems preferable to what you voted for, VOTE BETTER FFS, there's no need to pine after EU oppression just because you voted incorrectly and got the government you deserved, take some accountability
 

Dave

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how is that even REMOTELY possible?

the government you vote for directly, and the justice system you effectively chose, having the final say
versus
some socialist wannabe superpower having the final say


there' no comparison, if the end result of the EUSSR seems preferable to what you voted for, VOTE BETTER FFS, there's no need to pine after EU oppression just because you voted incorrectly and got the government you deserved, take some accountability
I don't think you've understood what was said, as ony an idiot could thinking losing protections relating to "holiday entitlement, sick leave, maximum working hours and flight compensation" would be a good idea...
 

NarrowBandFtw

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I don't think you've understood what was said, as ony an idiot could thinking losing protections relating to "holiday entitlement, sick leave, maximum working hours and flight compensation" would be a good idea...
protections afforded by an entity that overrides the very government YOU voted for are simply not worth the price, if you want better "protections" from your own government, vote for a better one, don't piss on your own sovereignty just to get some more holiday ... good grief!

if USA rocked up on South African shores with their entire naval fleet and forced our ANC government to increase minimum annual leave in our BCEA from 15 days to 16 you are of the opinion we should celebrate? Hell no! They can fahk right off, no matter my feelings toward the ANC. This is still South Africa and NOT the USA

now juxtapose all of that to the UK / EU dynamic and see the light
 

noxibox

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the government you vote for directly
So not the UK then. Voting system denies many any actual say in the composition of the government.

some socialist wannabe superpower having the final say
So who would this be? Not the EU. At least not to anyone who has even a basic understanding of how the EU is structured.

if USA rocked up on South African shores with their entire naval fleet and forced our ANC government to increase minimum annual leave in our BCEA from 15 days to 16 you are of the opinion we should celebrate?
That you have no clue? When would South Africans have chosen the members of the US government structures?

now juxtapose all of that to the UK / EU dynamic and see the light
You're right it does contrast with the UK/EU dynamic.

I don't think you've understood what was said, as ony an idiot could thinking losing protections relating to "holiday entitlement, sick leave, maximum working hours and flight compensation" would be a good idea...
According to an article in the Guardian the new Tories are all about the working person. If that's true they'll soon be increasing mandatory leave, minimum wage, protection for unions and reducing maximum working hours. I mean I won't hold my breath, because I can't recall any time when the Tories were really on the side of the workers, but maybe they'll pull a New Labour and start acting like their opponents.
 

noxibox

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Yes, and they've been leave for 3 years.
Based on what went on in parliament they clearly haven't.

Always found that really interesting: the system has been fine as long as Labour have won, but now that they lost they want to change it
It has been criticised for a long time by many people. I've always been against first past the post. But it is a good thing if the current situation actually wakes up Labour and people who vote for it. But getting another referendum on changing the voting system will be difficult, because it serves the incumbents.

You're forgetting that not all Conservative voters will have voted leave/would vote leave in a 2nd ref. Remember that they were a remain party until 3 years ago.
Yes, it's more spin. Pretending all Conservative voters favour leave, but maybe some Labour voters also support leave. If we assume that all those who voted Conservative favour leave, then we can just assume all those who didn't favour remain. So that's 53.5% remain. It's all baseless conjecture. But the leave side have been very desperate to avoid a second referendum, because they aren't certain they'd win again. Happy to keep having general elections, that's democracy, but having another referendum is anti-democracy.
 

Chris_the_Brit

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UK PM Johnson: There will be no alignment with EU rules in future relationship

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Friday there would be no alignment with European Union rules under the terms of the free trade deal he wants to strike with the bloc next year.

Johnson said his divorce deal “paves the way for a new agreement on our future relationship with our European neighbors based on an ambitious free trade agreement ... with no alignment on EU rules, but instead control of our own laws.”
Excellent news (again). EU only want alignment so they don't have a plucky and fierce competitor on their doorstep!
 

Chris_the_Brit

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Cummings put up a new blog post:

We want to hire an unusual set of people with different skills and backgrounds to work in Downing Street with the best officials, some as spads and perhaps some as officials. If you are already an official and you read this blog and think you fit one of these categories, get in touch.

The categories are roughly:

  • Data scientists and software developers
  • Economists
  • Policy experts
  • Project managers
  • Communication experts
  • Junior researchers one of whom will also be my personal assistant
  • Weirdos and misfits with odd skills
On the last bullet point:

G. Super-talented weirdos

People in SW1 talk a lot about ‘diversity’ but they rarely mean ‘true cognitive diversity’. They are usually babbling about ‘gender identity diversity blah blah’. What SW1 needs is not more drivel about ‘identity’ and ‘diversity’ from Oxbridge humanities graduates but more genuine cognitive diversity.

We need some true wild cards, artists, people who never went to university and fought their way out of an appalling hell hole, weirdos from William Gibson novels like that girl hired by Bigend as a brand ‘diviner’ who feels sick at the sight of Tommy Hilfiger or that Chinese-Cuban free runner from a crime family hired by the KGB. If you want to figure out what characters around Putin might do, or how international criminal gangs might exploit holes in our border security, you don’t want more Oxbridge English graduates who chat about Lacan at dinner parties with TV producers and spread fake news about fake news.

By definition I don’t really know what I’m looking for but I want people around No10 to be on the lookout for such people.

We need to figure out how to use such people better without asking them to conform to the horrors of ‘Human Resources’ (which also obviously need a bonfire).
 

access

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lol super talented weirdos.

funny way of putting it but i get what hes saying and completely agree. there is way too much knowledge that goes unused from some brilliant people.

dig for those hidden gems
 

zippy

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South Africa switched to proportional representation so that there was a high chance your vote would count. As in you'd get some representation. In a UK constituency if 51 people vote for one party and 49 vote for another party the votes of the 49 don't count at all and they get zero representation in government. It makes no sense that the Brexit Party can get 2% of the votes and yet those voters get no representation. Yet the DUP with a mere 0.8% have 8 seats, and the Social Democratic & Labour Party with a mere 0.4% have 2 seats. The only people who defend the system are those who happen to benefit from the skewed representation it creates.
Proportional representation is dangerous. MP’s can hide behind their party and essentially ignore voters as it’s the party that does the selection. This results in a party leadership only selecting sycophants will always toe the line. MP’s become even more disconnected with voters.

In the British system people say the votes of those voted for the losing candidate in a constituency does not count. That’s a load of rubbish. It counted in the local election. Their candidate lost.

In the SA system which uses the proportional representation system, you also have people whining their vote doesn’t count. With the added bonus of a Parliament full of ass kissers.
 

noxibox

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Proportional representation is dangerous. MP’s can hide behind their party and essentially ignore voters as it’s the party that does the selection. This results in a party leadership only selecting sycophants will always toe the line. MP’s become even more disconnected with voters.

In the British system people say the votes of those voted for the losing candidate in a constituency does not count. That’s a load of rubbish. It counted in the local election. Their candidate lost.
Exactly their vote doesn't count. In other words 49% of people get no representation at all.

The party can dictate anyway. That's why the party has a manifesto.

Proportional representation is the better system and it dramatically reduces the unrepresented as well as the ludicrous distortions created by first past the post.
 

Ancalagon

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Cummings put up a new blog post:

On the last bullet point:
It's actually very interesting. I even thought about applying, but realised that I'd need to take a major pay cut to do so.

Yeah, the last bullet point is interesting, and actually good to see - he doesn't parrot out the familiar old diversity crap. Cognitive diversity is an interesting goal - one worth achieving in my opinion. Everyone thinks differently - you could have two black females that think in totally different ways.

Luckily there is not much that the Left can do about this. Cummings will get his way, stuff will get done, and honestly I think the UK will be better for it. Its the medicine that the country needs but it won't like it, I guarantee it.
 

noxibox

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Lol. If Labour or the LibDems put up a post like that you’d be having a field day criticising and laughing at them.
Of course they would. Corbyn would have been called a loon for the exact same post. I'm also not sure the Tories are going to want all those liberals working at No. 10 or anywhere in SW1 for that matter.

Its the medicine that the country needs but it won't like it
Sure, Cummings and the Tories are going to bite the hand of the wealthy elite. I'll believe it when I see it. Will be a first for them not to pander to the wealthy elite.

Luckily there is not much that the Left can do about this.
Why would they want to? They're ones who wanted to turn things around.
 

Chris_the_Brit

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This thread has been pretty quiet since the Left realized there is no turning back :D

11 days to go.
A thousand EU financial firms plan to open UK offices after Brexit

LONDON (Reuters) - More than a thousand banks, asset managers, payments companies and insurers in the European Union plan to open offices in post-Brexit Britain so they can continue serving UK clients, regulatory consultancy Bovill said on Monday.

The new offices and staff will help mitigate the loss of business going the other way as the current unfettered two-way direct access between Britain and the EU comes to an end in December following a Brexit transition period.
Thought all the financial services firms were running away to Frankfurt and Paris? :laugh:
 
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