The Brexit Thread

[zippy]

A single company, Games Workshop, is bigger than the UK fishing industry.

But it could be argued that a significant proportion of people who work at Games Workshop are not and probably will never be Tory voters, if they even vote at all

 

[The Voice]

But it could be argued that a significant proportion of people who work at Games Workshop are not and probably will never be Tory voters, if they even vote at all

Not like we can eat plastic miniatures, either.

 

[Dave]

Not like we can eat plastic miniatures, either.

Not like we eat the majority of fish the UK boats land, either

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Nah dude, the Belgium minister stated the EU decided to lock the two together up front for negotiating power. The fact the UK didn't want them locked together is acceptable, just as much as the EU believes it's acceptable to lock them together. Depending on which side you pick, only one of them is acceptable to you though.

Just like the UK is locking access to UK waters in for negotiating power. That's what rivals in hostile negotiations do - they try to get one-up.

The EU wants to dictate terms to the single market access of the EU to the UK, but also want to dictate terms to the UK fishing grounds to the UK. Why should the UK roll over for the EU unreasonable demands on their own fishing grounds. The EU wants their cake and to eat as as well.

No, the UK wants unrestricted access to the market, without giving anything in return.

It makes sense for the UK to want access and it makes sense for the EU to want their fisheries' access to UK waters maintained, especially since the fish don't really give a schit which country's waters they're in.

If only there some way these things could be managed together instead of as rivals...

The UK had been hostile since day one trying to push demands and restrictions into the EU. Just recently they said the EU must comprise on their demands otherwise there won't be any more negotiations. Of course, he is indirectly saying the UK isn't willing to compromise but the EU must compromise before negotiations will taken place. As I keep saying, the UK are so used to getting their own way, they don't know how to deal with a nation when they say NO. They honestly seem incapable of dealing with this in a fair and constructive manner.

Anyway, no deal is likely to happen, I'll be surprised if a deal is reached before 1 January. Time for everyone to accept it and move forward. You can blame UK, I'll blame the EU, but ultimately it's shows politicians are useless *****

No, not really. It proves the Remainers were right all along.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

It's not that UK won't give access to the fisheries, it's that they won't give access on the EUs terms which are totally unreasonable demands, and the control they keep pushing for is ridiculous. It's actually the EU that wants their cake and wants to eat it, except it's all fallen on the floor and they are crying about it.

Also remember, it was one of the Belgium ministers that stated the EU locked the fishing grounds access to a trade deal right in the beginning only to strengthen the negotiation power of the EU and try force the UK's hand in negotiations. Guess that backfired for them.

Unfortunately just like May was the wrong person fit the UK to negotiate a deal, so is Barnier for the EU. Barnier has even admitted the level playing field he keeps going on about and that all negotiations hinge on isn't about fairness afterall, it's about stopping Britain under cutting the 27 (EU members) which is a direct contradiction to free and fair trade and what Brexit is about. LPF is just a facade to protect the EU from the UK competing with EU globally. Fortunately the UK government has seen this ploy and rejected it, and the EU still can't understand why the UK isn't rolling over and giving into their ridiculous demands.

I think it's really tough on the EU where a nation doesn't give in to bullying or threats (looking at you France and Germany) they are used to throwing. Barnier pretty much lost all credibility when he lost his temper back on February, Must be hard on him knowing he failed the entire EU 27.

Viva Brexit, Viva UK.

Well duh.

It's like dumping your girlfriend, the being upset that she doesn't want to agree to a fair deal where you get the sleep with her in exchange for your netflix password, while she sleeps with other people.
Did people voting for brexit really think they would get the good trade deal without all the EU stuff they don't want?

 

[AdrianH]

Well duh.

It's like dumping your girlfriend, the being upset that she doesn't want to agree to a fair deal where you get the sleep with her in exchange for your netflix password, while she sleeps with other people.
Did people voting for brexit really think they would get the good trade deal without all the EU stuff they don't want?

Nope, people that voted for Brexit knew it would be tough and aren't under an illusion it was going to be easy, even realising a no deal was a high possibility.

It's the remainers that seem to believe the EU are this fair, pure, truthful and upstanding organization and put the best intentions of others first and foremost, to the point it would seem some are delusional. Must be tough losing twice though, feel sorry for them.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Nope, people that voted for Brexit knew it would be tough and aren't under an illusion it was going to be easy, even realising a no deal was a high possibility.

It's the remainers that seem to believe the EU are this fair, pure, truthful and upstanding organization and put the best intentions of others first and foremost, to the point it would seem some are delusional. Must be tough losing twice though, feel sorry for them.

I doubt that just like informed brexiteers, informed remainers know that neither staying or leaving will give them 100% what they want. They just think what they gain from EU membership is better than what they have to give up because of it.

You are right to feel sorry for them, because just like South Africans who didn't vote ANC, they now have to live with the consequences of something they never wanted.

 

[AdrianH]

I doubt that just like informed brexiteers, informed remainers know that neither staying or leaving will give them 100% what they want. They just think what they gain from EU membership is better than what they have to give up because of it.

You are right to feel sorry for them, because just like South Africans who didn't vote ANC, they now have to live with the consequences of something they never wanted.

Thanks for the level headed response.

Unfortunately, there will always be winners and losers when its a democracy, that's just how it is. I voted COPE once, talk about a feeling of throwing my vote away. I didn't sulk for three years and wish SA to fail though, I got on with life. To me though and what I see and hear, remainers would rather see Brexit fail just so they can say "I told you so", basically cutting off their nose to spite their face. They would rather see Britain burn than have a good Brexit.

Once the referendum result was in showing majority wanting to leave, all the MPs should have gotten on board and tried their best to give what the majority voted for instead of fighting it and hoping a 2nd referendum would reverse the first result. They could have accepted Brexit is happening and got behind the government and try push for the best deal possible. May should not have taken the task to do a deal, she didn't have the heart or fight to do what's best for UK, the UK needed a bulldog if you get what I mean.

The EU are playing their usual negotiation game, go in hard with ridiculous demands from the get go, refuse to budge causing delays, blame the other party saying they refuse to compromise, and at the last minute, seem to compromise to get a deal through. What they failed to realise is that the UK went through this whole process when joining the EU, and they have been involved with these kind of negotiations while with the EU. The UK know how the EU like to play.

Anyway, after reading yesterdays news, things are looking better for some kind of deal. I am in lockdown tier 3 now, so boo for that, but at least gyms are staying open for the time being..

PS: where are you dude, SA or UK or else where?

 

[The Voice]

Thanks for the level headed response.

Unfortunately, there will always be winners and losers when its a democracy, that's just how it is. I voted COPE once, talk about a feeling of throwing my vote away. I didn't sulk for three years and wish SA to fail though, I got on with life. To me though and what I see and hear, remainers would rather see Brexit fail just so they can say "I told you so", basically cutting off their nose to spite their face. They would rather see Britain burn than have a good Brexit.

Once the referendum result was in showing majority wanting to leave, all the MPs should have gotten on board and tried their best to give what the majority voted for instead of fighting it and hoping a 2nd referendum would reverse the first result. They could have accepted Brexit is happening and got behind the government and try push for the best deal possible. May should not have taken the task to do a deal, she didn't have the heart or fight to do what's best for UK, the UK needed a bulldog if you get what I mean.

The EU are playing their usual negotiation game, go in hard with ridiculous demands from the get go, refuse to budge causing delays, blame the other party saying they refuse to compromise, and at the last minute, seem to compromise to get a deal through. What they failed to realise is that the UK went through this whole process when joining the EU, and they have been involved with these kind of negotiations while with the EU. The UK know how the EU like to play.

Anyway, after reading yesterdays news, things are looking better for some kind of deal. I am in lockdown tier 3 now, so boo for that, but at least gyms are staying open for the time being..

PS: where are you dude, SA or UK or else where?

Well, they were never going to get on board (the opposition, as well as some of the Tory EU sympathisers) - this was made evident by the fact that since the result in June 2016, they've constantly tried to overturn it and undermine the democratic process, even causing us to have another general election, which was effectively Brexit 2.0. Which Leave won - yet again.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Thanks for the level headed response.

Unfortunately, there will always be winners and losers when its a democracy, that's just how it is. I voted COPE once, talk about a feeling of throwing my vote away. I didn't sulk for three years and wish SA to fail though, I got on with life. To me though and what I see and hear, remainers would rather see Brexit fail just so they can say "I told you so", basically cutting off their nose to spite their face. They would rather see Britain burn than have a good Brexit.

Once the referendum result was in showing majority wanting to leave, all the MPs should have gotten on board and tried their best to give what the majority voted for instead of fighting it and hoping a 2nd referendum would reverse the first result. They could have accepted Brexit is happening and got behind the government and try push for the best deal possible. May should not have taken the task to do a deal, she didn't have the heart or fight to do what's best for UK, the UK needed a bulldog if you get what I mean.

The EU are playing their usual negotiation game, go in hard with ridiculous demands from the get go, refuse to budge causing delays, blame the other party saying they refuse to compromise, and at the last minute, seem to compromise to get a deal through. What they failed to realise is that the UK went through this whole process when joining the EU, and they have been involved with these kind of negotiations while with the EU. The UK know how the EU like to play.

Anyway, after reading yesterdays news, things are looking better for some kind of deal. I am in lockdown tier 3 now, so boo for that, but at least gyms are staying open for the time being..

PS: where are you dude, SA or UK or else where?

We can agree on that. If everyone doesn't work towards the same thing, even though they don't agree with it, you usually get the bad parts without good parts. And you don't know if it works. Many people care too much about being right and not giving in than getting the best possible result under difficult circumstances. Seen the same thing with Covid restrictions, but I digress....

I'm in SA, so don't really care that much about what happens in the UK. I actually think a bad brexit and weaker pound will be good for my travel goals in the near future.

 

[C4Cat]

Nope, people that voted for Brexit knew it would be tough and aren't under an illusion it was going to be easy, even realising a no deal was a high possibility.

Yeah, sure. You have a short memory

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/11621/attachments/original/1490680551/govtcontract_final.pdf?1490680551

It's the remainers that seem to believe the EU are this fair, pure, truthful and upstanding organization and put the best intentions of others first and foremost, to the point it would seem some are delusional. Must be tough losing twice though, feel sorry for them.

Nope, we're just aware that Europe has been at peace for the last 70 years, for the first time in recorded history. That the free movement of people brought many advantages to everyone. That's because of the EU, even with all it's faults and the need to change in many ways.

 

[AdrianH]

HAHAHA

Yeah, sure. You have a short memory

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/11621/attachments/original/1490680551/govtcontract_final.pdf?1490680551

Nope, we're just aware that Europe has been at peace for the last 70 years, for the first time in recorded history. That the free movement of people brought many advantages to everyone. That's because of the EU, even with all it's faults and the need to change in many ways.

HAHAHAHAHAH....Posting an anti-Tory/anti-Brexit YouTube channel to back up your posts.

So lets post some of the lies said by the remainers during their fear mongering campaign that would just happen by voting to leave, mind about actually leaving, so here's just a few of them just to help jog your memory:

• Voting to leave the EU would have an immediate detrimental effect on the UK’s economy.
• The stock market would crash soon afterwards.
• British immigration officers would be thrown out of France.
• There would have to be an emergency budget.
• Britain would be at the “back of the queue” for a US trade deal.
• Article 50 would be triggered immediately.
• The UK would break up.

But the best lie which actually shows how delusional the remainers actually are is when the said that the UK had changed its mind about leaving the EU and a second referendum would show the majority wanted to remain. The remainers got a 2nd referendum through a general election, and they were shown that they were wrong and their statement was a lie. Sucks being wrong, but twice on the same thing, EINA!

 

[C4Cat]

HAHAHA


HAHAHAHAHAH....Posting an anti-Tory/anti-Brexit YouTube channel to back up your posts.

So lets post some of the lies said by the remainers during their fear mongering campaign that would just happen by voting to leave, mind about actually leaving, so here's just a few of them just to help jog your memory:

• Voting to leave the EU would have an immediate detrimental effect on the UK’s economy.
• The stock market would crash soon afterwards.
• British immigration officers would be thrown out of France.
• There would have to be an emergency budget.
• Britain would be at the “back of the queue” for a US trade deal.
• Article 50 would be triggered immediately.
• The UK would break up.

But the best lie which actually shows how delusional the remainers actually are is when the said that the UK had changed its mind about leaving the EU and a second referendum would show the majority wanted to remain. The remainers got a 2nd referendum through a general election, and they were shown that they were wrong and their statement was a lie. Sucks being wrong, but twice on the same thing, EINA!

How does posting this nonsense backup your claim that "the people who voted for Brexit knew it would be tough and weren't under an illusion it was going to be easy, even realising a no deal was a high possibility"?
All the promises those people made demonstrate the exact opposite of what you claimed (as my post shows).
What the Remain voters did or didn't say is irrelevant to your assertion, which was specifically about what the pro-Brexit voters thought. Your post above is a strawman argument, it says nothing about what the people who voted for Brexit knew or didn't know.

 

[AdrianH]

How does posting this nonsense backup your claim that "the people who voted for Brexit knew it would be tough and weren't under an illusion it was going to be easy, even realising a no deal was a high possibility"?
All the promises those people made demonstrate the exact opposite of what you claimed (as my post shows).
What the Remain voters did or didn't say is irrelevant to your assertion, which was specifically about what the pro-Brexit voters thought. Your post above is a strawman argument, it says nothing about what the people who voted for Brexit knew or didn't know.

It doesn't, but it shows you have a short memory because you seem to have forgotten about all the lies spewed by the remainers, yet you were very eager to post lies by leavers.

Nope, we're just aware that Europe has been at peace for the last 70 years, for the first time in recorded history. That the free movement of people brought many advantages to everyone. That's because of the EU, even with all it's faults and the need to change in many ways.

Anyway, but lets talk about your claim of 70 years of peace in Europe, and then lets talk about how the EU failed the Yugoslavians for over 10 years, how well the EU did in protecting them? Unless I misunderstand what peace means, and we just sweep this under the rug along with the other conflicts that occurred in the last 70 years thoughout Europe. Then yes 70 years of peace, screw the Yugoslavians, they aren't real Europeans anyway!

I doubt that. The uk government have proven over generations that they can't be trusted, they want it all and are unwilling to compromise or meet from a place of respect and support. It was always going to be a no deal. Many of the leave advocates are counting on it and have been from the very beginning.

Show me where the government have said they are counting on a no-deal or that they are unwilling to compromise. Oddly enough, they are busy with negotiations right now making compromises. Of course, Barnier saying negotiations won't continue until UK compromises is something else you forgot about, because the EU directly refusing to negotiate is a sure way to not meet from a place of respect and support. Compromises goes both ways, and EU has played the hardline since day one as per their usual negotiation game, except this time they are now seeing it hasn't really worked how they thought it would.

Strawman argument, better then telling lies! 70 years peace my ass! Seeing the EU has also failed in Poland regarding racism and homophobia, I find it odd you would want to align to this kind of organization that cares more about trade, money and power than the welfare and wellbeing of people. An organization that dictates laws in countries about how people should be treated, but doesn't act when people are being discriminated against and treated badly. Guess it says more about you then it does about the EU.

 

[C4Cat]

It doesn't

Well there you go then

shows you have a short memory because you seem to have forgotten about all the lies spewed by the remainers,

Where did I make any claims about what the remainders did or didn't say?

 

[C4Cat]

Anyway, but lets talk about your claim of 70 years of peace in Europe, and then lets talk about how the EU failed the Yugoslavians for over 10 years, how well the EU did in protecting them? Unless I misunderstand what peace means, and we just sweep this under the rug along with the other conflicts that occurred in the last 70 years thoughout Europe. Then yes 70 years of peace, screw the Yugoslavians, they aren't real Europeans anyway!

Oh, so now you think the EU should exist and be responsible for all countries, even those that are not part of the EU? I'm not sure the UK would appreciate that attitude. How is it the EU's responsibility to control countries not within the EU? And yes, I'll admit when I'm wrong and amend my statement to 70 years of peace in EU countries. Which actually makes my point - its the countries in the EU that are at peace, those outside of it are still fighting. You make a good argument in support of the EU. Hopefully the UK won't also soon be one of those countries at war with itself, now that it's no longer in the EU

 

[C4Cat]

Show me where the government have said they are counting on a no-deal or that they are unwilling to compromise.

Boris Johnson's refusal to seek compromise will be his undoing | Martin Kettle

Good prime ministers try to negotiate their way out of trouble. From Manchester to Brexit, Johnson is unable to do so, says Guardian columnist Martin Kettle

www.theguardian.com

Downing Street refuses to compromise in Brexit talks

Downing Street has said it will not be compromising on the UK’s Brexit negotiating position despite calls for a change of direction...

www.theneweuropean.co.uk

Downing Street has said it will not be compromising on the UK’s Brexit negotiating position despite calls for a change of direction from the European Union.

The prime minister’s official spokesman said: “We want to try and reach a free-trade agreement as soon as possible.

“But we have been clear that we won’t change our negotiating position and we have been clear what that position is.”

 

[AdrianH]

Its just a pissing contest where UK is just following the EUs initial statements. Both of the articles you posted follow a week after the ones about the EU made statements about refusing to compromise.

Boris Johnson's refusal to seek compromise will be his undoing | Martin Kettle

Good prime ministers try to negotiate their way out of trouble. From Manchester to Brexit, Johnson is unable to do so, says Guardian columnist Martin Kettle

www.theguardian.com

European Union refuses to 'compromise at any cost' on Brexit with UK

Downing Street refuses to compromise in Brexit talks

Downing Street has said it will not be compromising on the UK’s Brexit negotiating position despite calls for a change of direction...

www.theneweuropean.co.uk

EU threatens to pull out of Brexit talks if UK refuses to compromise

Strawman argument, better then telling lies! 70 years peace my ass! Seeing the EU has also failed in Poland regarding racism and homophobia, I find it odd you would want to align to this kind of organization that cares more about trade, money and power than the welfare and wellbeing of people. An organization that dictates laws in countries about how people should be treated, but doesn't act when people are being discriminated against and treated badly. Guess it says more about you then it does about the EU.

I apologize for this insinuation, it was uncalled for!

Can we move forward?

PS: How do I get the nice article block to show?

 

[C4Cat]

PS: How do I get the nice article block to show?

I'm not sure, I just paste the url (using the myBB website or mobile website) and it happens automatically

 

[AdrianH]

Lets talk about something else.

What are your guesses of the outcome come 1 January? A no-deal could be very well happening, but I think some deal will be agreed upon before then.

I guess it will be interesting to see which side compromises first, and how big the comprise is. I actually believe both sides are willing to compromise, but neither side wants to go first, sort of not wanting to look like they gave in first.

An extension is out of the question right? Legally UK can't, and Boris will never extend due to political reasons anyway?