The Brexit Thread

[Dave]

What are your guesses of the outcome come 1 January? A no-deal could be very well happening, but I think some deal will be agreed upon before then.

Deal or not, Kent is going to become a massive car park and a flustercuck of epic proportions, the ports aren't ready and neither are the transport firms.

An extension is out of the question right? Legally UK can't, and Boris will never extend due to political reasons anyway?

Parliament is sovereign, if BoJo wants an extension it could easily be legislated with his majority, he likely won't though as his backers wouldn't be happy.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

HAHAHA


HAHAHAHAHAH....Posting an anti-Tory/anti-Brexit YouTube channel to back up your posts.

So lets post some of the lies said by the remainers during their fear mongering campaign that would just happen by voting to leave, mind about actually leaving, so here's just a few of them just to help jog your memory:

• Voting to leave the EU would have an immediate detrimental effect on the UK’s economy.
• The stock market would crash soon afterwards.
• British immigration officers would be thrown out of France.
• There would have to be an emergency budget.
• Britain would be at the “back of the queue” for a US trade deal.
• Article 50 would be triggered immediately.
• The UK would break up.

But the best lie which actually shows how delusional the remainers actually are is when the said that the UK had changed its mind about leaving the EU and a second referendum would show the majority wanted to remain. The remainers got a 2nd referendum through a general election, and they were shown that they were wrong and their statement was a lie. Sucks being wrong, but twice on the same thing, EINA!

Who are you talking about here exactly? Cos the Leave lies and promises were made by the leaders of the leave campaign as well as very senior elected politicians like Johnson and Rees-Mogg.

 

[AdrianH]

Who are you talking about here exactly? Cos the Leave lies and promises were made by the leaders of the leave campaign as well as very senior elected politicians like Johnson and Rees-Mogg.

These were the lies that came out the remainer/stay camp before the refurendum, a few of them by David Cameron himself. In fact, David Cameron actual got Obama to lie to push his agenda.

A former key aide to Barack Obama has confirmed David Cameron personally asked the US president to warn Britain would be "back of the queue" for a post-Brexit trade deal.

Cameron 'personally requested Obama's back of the queue Brexit warning'

An ex-White House adviser says the former PM asked Mr Obama to be pessimistic about a trade deal in April 2016.

news.sky.com

He also said Article 50 would be triggered immediately upon leave vote, just another lie because it happened 12 months later or so if I recall.

George Osbourne said the UK would need an emergency budget if a vote of leave occured. He also said that families would £4300 worse off if they voted to leave.

 

[AdrianH]

Deal or not, Kent is going to become a massive car park and a flustercuck of epic proportions, the ports aren't ready and neither are the transport firms.

Are you in Kent yourself?

The next two weeks will be very interesting. I don't know any particulars, but if a deal is reached, would it have relaxed border control for goods, or is the trade deal mainly dealing with tariffs and taxes?

 

[Dave]

He also said that families would £4300 worse off if they voted to leave.

It's heading that way, independent analysis in 2019 put it at £2000 worse off, and we haven't got to Jan 1st 2021 yet.

How the economic cost of Brexit is being hidden from Leave voters

The average household is around £2,000 worse off. But Brexiteer politicians and much of the media are obscuring this truth.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[Dave]

Are you in Kent yourself?

No, thank god, I'm in the north.

The next two weeks will be very interesting. I don't know any particulars, but if a deal is reached, would it have relaxed border control for goods, or is the trade deal mainly dealing with tariffs and taxes?

The problem will actually be the extra time processing each load, and the delays any issues with paperwork can cause.

To avoid delays each customs check has to be no more than 40 SECONDS, if it takes an extra minute the queue could become 6 hours delay at busy times and if it gets to 70 seconds extra there will be week long delays, it gets worse the longer the delay.

That info comes from a report compiled for the Department of Transport.

The UCL research was based on the impact of different processing times for outbound journeys using Dover’s existing layout and traffic flows. It anticipates that extra customs checks of up to 40 seconds per vehicle would have no impact on the queueing time for outward journeys through Dover.

However, that changes dramatically when the additional delays are only slightly longer. With a further 60 seconds of checks, officials anticipate queues of six to eight hours on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, when traffic is particularly heavy.

If delays reach 70 seconds per truck, a queue of between 1,200 and 2,724 heavy goods vehicles is expected, leading to tailbacks taking six days. “[The queue] starts Monday evening and ends by Saturday noon,” according to the analysis.

If the processing time goes up to 80 seconds the result would simply be “no recovery”, it says.

“‘No recovery’ would mean the whole country is in a traffic jam,” said one official.

Six-day queues into Dover feared under no-deal Brexit scenario

Government-ordered study finds just 80-second customs checks would mean permanent gridlock

www.ft.com

Even if the problems are only half what is forecast there, you're still talking about the possibility of trucks queuing for days.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

These were the lies that came out the remainer/stay camp before the refurendum, a few of them by David Cameron himself. In fact, David Cameron actual got Obama to lie to push his agenda.

Cameron 'personally requested Obama's back of the queue Brexit warning'

An ex-White House adviser says the former PM asked Mr Obama to be pessimistic about a trade deal in April 2016.

news.sky.com

What's the "lie" here exactly?

He also said Article 50 would be triggered immediately upon leave vote, just another lie because it happened 12 months later or so if I recall.

Where did he say that?

George Osbourne said the UK would need an emergency budget if a vote of leave occured.

Eh, he was out less than a month later. So that one was kind of left unresolved.

He also said that families would £4300 worse off if they voted to leave.

By 2030. Do you have a crystal ball? Plus, as Dave has pointed out, it's already made people poorer by a significant amount.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

UK drops push for renationalising of fishing vessels in Brexit talks

No 10 said to have reached a compromise over fishing vessels to be majority British-owned in future

www.theguardian.com

Downing Street has watered down a key demand over post-Brexit fishing rights as part of a broader compromise, EU sources said as Germany’s ambassador in Brussels said there was a chance of a deal by the weekend.

The UK dropped a push for fishing vessels operating under the UK flag to be majority British-owned in the future, it was claimed.

Sad Trombone

 

[AdrianH]

What's the "lie" here exactly?

The lie is that Obama said what he did is because Cameron asked him to, as confirmed by Mr Rhodes in the article, it wasn't based on fact or truth and turned out to be false. This is what Obama said

I think it’s fair to say that maybe some point down the line there might be a UK-US trade agreement, but it’s not going to happen any time soon because our focus is in negotiating with a big bloc, the European Union, to get a trade agreement done.

The UK is going to be in the back of the queue.

The US have come out though and said something different since.

US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has reinvigorated talk of a free trade deal with the UK following Brexit.

It follows worries that Britain's "special relationship" with the US had cooled.

Mr Mnuchin said Britain would still be at the "front of the queue" for a bilateral free trade deal following the exit from the European Union.

source

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Where did he say that?

This is what Cameron said during the campaign

During the referendum David Cameron stated that, "If the British people vote to leave, [they] would rightly expect [the invoking of Article 50] to start straight away"

source

The point of him saying this was to create fear based on the other statements he and other remainers like John Major told in 2015, that voting to leave and triggering Article 50 was something your could not go back on.

David Cameron in 2015 when addressing the EU

This is a huge decision for our country. Perhaps the biggest we’ll make in our lifetime. And it will be the final decision.

Of course, once the fear tactic didn't work and vote was to leave, there was no issue with going back on because now they wanted to push to revoke Article 50.

Johan Major in 2015

If we come out, we are out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to go back and say we’ve reconsidered, or let’s have another referendum. If we vote to stay out, then we are out, and we will have to get on with it.

John Major in 2018

Speaking in Dublin, Mr Major said that the UK needed to revoke its article 50 application to withdraw from the European Union “with immediate effect.”

Anyway the EU said multiple times the UK can change their mind and scrap leaving. It was just more fear mongering from the remainer camp.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Eh, he was out less than a month later. So that one was kind of left unresolved.

Its irrelevant if he left or was still around, he made a statement to create fear which turned out to be false and a lie.

George Osborne will warn that he would have to fill the £30bn black hole in public finances triggered by a vote to leave the European Union by hiking income tax, alcohol and petrol duties and making massive cuts to the NHS, schools and defence.

source

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Do you actually believe only the leave campaigners lied, or do you choose to only believe the leave campaigners lied?

The fact is, both camps made up all sorts of BS. The remainers lied and fear mongered to scare people in staying by making up dooms day stories. The leavers lied to paint a pretty picture and how glorious not being part of the EU will be and controlling the fishing. Ultimately though, the leavers lies sounded better than the remainers lies, and they won...TWICE! Remainers now want to throw stones and point fingers and say they leavers lied when their own remainers was also just lies. Its all a bit hypocritical and just shows up the remainers as being sore losers.

 

[AdrianH]

It's heading that way, independent analysis in 2019 put it at £2000 worse off, and we haven't got to Jan 1st 2021 yet.

How the economic cost of Brexit is being hidden from Leave voters

The average household is around £2,000 worse off. But Brexiteer politicians and much of the media are obscuring this truth.

www.newstatesman.com

First off, newstatesman.com being left bias website would have to taken with some salt.
(New Statesman - Media Bias/Fact Check)

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy

Also Googling the author of this article Simon Wren-Lewis, alot of what I am reading seems to be anti-brexit and anti-government.

Moving on though, looking for other disposable income graphs, a different picture is shown that shows a steady upwards trend.



Average household income, UK - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

And another, just ignore 2020 obviously.

 

[AdrianH]

The EU don't even have faith in their own chief negotiator to make the correct decisions now. Those EU nations feeling the need to micro-manage Barnier. LOL

Michel Barnier is being quizzed by EU leaders over concerns that the negotiator is planning to concede too much to the UK in the final days of Brexit negotiations.

...

EU leaders were pushing Barnier “to include them before agreeing to anything”, the unnamed diplomat said, as negotiators continued to wrangle over fishing rights and competition conditions for business.

Hang on, wasn't it the EU that kept saying they won't compromise, so why are the EU nations getting all nervous for if they aren't going to compromise? Oh of course, because their bluff has been called, or should I dare say the EU lied!

The EU will not accept any compromise on the interests of its internal market, the bloc’s chief Brexit negotiator said on Friday.

“We won’t let a third country to set the conditions of access for our own market of goods, services and data”, Michel Barnier said

Michel Barnier facing EU scrutiny over Brexit deal compromises

Emmanuel Macron leading chorus of ‘nervous’ European leaders

www.theweek.co.uk

 

[OrbitalDawn]

The lie is that Obama said what he did is because Cameron asked him to, as confirmed by Mr Rhodes in the article, it wasn't based on fact or truth and turned out to be false. This is what Obama said



The US have come out though and said something different since.



source

Nothing you've pointed to here is a lie. You just don't like what he said for whatever reason.

Here's what Rhodes also said:

"Some of the arguments were based on the notion the US could just negotiate its own free trade agreement with the UK quickly.

"We all were agreeing that was unlikely to happen.

"As Obama was saying that, somebody on the British side said 'yes, we'd end up being back of the queue' and everyone laughed and Obama said 'that's exactly right'.

i.e. it was already Obama's position before they even discussed it.

It turned out to be accurate, too. You've posted a different position from a different US administration, and almost 3 years later, with the UK allegedly being "at the front of the queue", nothing has happened. Obama was right.

This is what Cameron said during the campaign



source

The point of him saying this was to create fear based on the other statements he and other remainers like John Major told in 2015, that voting to leave and triggering Article 50 was something your could not go back on.

David Cameron in 2015 when addressing the EU

That's not the same thing you claimed he said. Saying there would be an "expectation" isn't remotely the same as saying it would be triggered immediately.

Johan Major in 2015



John Major in 2018

Nothing here is a lie either. You can accuse him of being a flip-flopper or whatever, but

Its irrelevant if he left or was still around, he made a statement to create fear which turned out to be false and a lie.

lol, what? He made a statement about what he might have to do as Chancellor, and since he wasn't there he obviously couldn't do it. That doesn't make it false or a lie.

Do you actually believe only the leave campaigners lied, or do you choose to only believe the leave campaigners lied?


The fact is, both camps made up all sorts of BS. The remainers lied and fear mongered to scare people in staying by making up dooms day stories. The leavers lied to paint a pretty picture and how glorious not being part of the EU will be and controlling the fishing. Ultimately though, the leavers lies sounded better than the remainers lies, and they won...TWICE! Remainers now want to throw stones and point fingers and say they leavers lied when their own remainers was also just lies. Its all a bit hypocritical and just shows up the remainers as being sore losers.

No, but Leave's lies were way more egregious and built on xenophobia and relentless smears against the EU.

And if the above is really the best you can do to point out the lies from Remain...well then...

 

[AdrianH]

And if the above is really the best you can do to point out the lies from Remain...well then...

Well, interpret as you like, I along with many others can see the lies and fear mongering played by the remain camp. An immediate £30bil tax hole left by leave vote, sure maybe in his dreams! LOL Flip-flopping isn't lying....OK!

As for David Cameron, what expectation is he talking about, nobody gave him that expectation except for himself and the remainer camp. Of course, if he knew the law, he would have known this wouldn't have happened as Parliament would have to approve article 50 first anyway. Of course, Osbourne also stated a prompt trigger and it also never happened. Just lies and fear mongering by the losing side.

He has said he would immediately trigger article 50 because “the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away”. George Osborne has said that “this is crucially important, the one way the European Union itself has a legal basis to negotiate our exit is to trigger article 50. Article 50 would be triggered immediately and that process would begin.” The trigger would be pulled with a fortnight, Osborne added.

Also, his lies continue as when he was asked leading up to the referendum what he will do in a leave vote, and he said he will stay and see it though. Then he lost and merely resigned like a loser and coward!

Anyway, Brexit is happening and nothing is going to change. Remainers should just accept this instead of moaning and criticising all the time, they are ultimatly jusy making things worse. Then again, it would seem the remainers would rather have a failed Brexit even if they and the UK are worse off because they haven't seen able to put their loss and hurt egoes aside.

 

[AdrianH]

Downing Street has said that despite “some progress” being made in post-Brexit trade talks, the government believes no deal is still the “most likely outcome” of ongoing negotiations.

PM is ready to recall parliament over its Christmas break if a trade deal is agreed with EU

MPs and peers to go home on Thursday, but may be called back to rush through ratification

www.independent.co.uk

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Remainers should just accept this instead of moaning and criticising all the time, they are ultimatly jusy making things worse. Then again, it would seem the remainers would rather have a failed Brexit even if they and the UK are worse off because they haven't seen able to put their loss and hurt egoes aside.

lol, there it is. The last, sad refuge of the disillusioned Brexiteer - blame the people who turned out to be right and didn't want this outcome in the first place.

As I said, nothing has changed about the MO in 4 years. This was written 4 years ago, and still applies.

Brexiteers will blame anyone but themselves

Two years ago, the Queen came out against Scottish independence. “I hope,” she said, “people will think very carefully about the future.” That was it. That was all she said.It was hardly strange that

www.thetimes.co.uk

To wit :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1337347935391113216

 

[Sayf777]

Eish this has been a hectic read overtime but ill put my unwanted 2c. Ah UK the giver of lands. Hope you get the worst outcome for yourselves.

 

[AdrianH]

lol, there it is. The last, sad refuge of the disillusioned Brexiteer - blame the people who turned out to be right and didn't want this outcome in the first place.

As I said, nothing has changed about the MO in 4 years. This was written 4 years ago, and still applies.

Seems you have forgotten the wasted three years that lead to a general election (2nd referendum)! The losers in the remainer camp spent 3 years being cry babies because they didn't get their way, stamping their feet about it being unfair, shouting about how the UK majority had changed their minds and the general election would show this, just being undemocratic and refusing to accept defeat graciously and honour the will of the majority. Basically the remainers couldn't face reality, decided that being mature adults was no longer important, and decided that upholding democracy only applied when the democratic process gives them what they want.

But if you want to see for yourself the remainer crowd are, lets use Sue Perkins as you posted her tweet in the first place.

BBC star Sue Perkins faces backlash for calling Leave voters 'headbangers and zealots'

Ah yes, name calling and insulting people just because your feelings were hurt and didn't get your way. She came back and to say it was directed at ERP and not the UK voters, but that nose just kept on growing! So remainers proving once again that they are just incapable of being mature, unable to accept defeat, and just totally undermining democracy, basically just showing their abhorrent behavior for the world to see. Its sad and pathetic at the same time.

Also, if you want to post an article to try argue your point, maybe try get an author that isn't bias towards your narrative.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169366463603515393

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Seems you have forgotten the wasted three years that lead to a general election (2nd referendum)! The losers in the remainer camp spent 3 years being cry babies because they didn't get their way, stamping their feet about it being unfair, shouting about how the UK majority had changed their minds and the general election would show this, just being undemocratic and refusing to accept defeat graciously and honour the will of the majority. Basically the remainers couldn't face reality, decided that being mature adults was no longer important, and decided that upholding democracy only applied when the democratic process gives them what they want.

But if you want to see for yourself the remainer crowd are, lets use Sue Perkins as you posted her tweet in the first place.

BBC star Sue Perkins faces backlash for calling Leave voters 'headbangers and zealots'

Ah yes, name calling and insulting people just because your feelings were hurt and didn't get your way. She came back and to say it was directed at ERP and not the UK voters, but that nose just kept on growing! So remainers proving once again that they are just incapable of being mature, unable to accept defeat, and just totally undermining democracy, basically just showing their abhorrent behavior for the world to see. Its sad and pathetic at the same time.

Also, if you want to post an article to try argue your point, maybe try get one that isn't bias towards your narrative.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169366463603515393

This is all a bit desperate. Remainers haven't been in charge of the UK government since mid-July 2016. At some point you'll have to find another scapegoat, because I realise it's beyond Brexiteers' ability to ever take responsibility for the consequences of their own actions.

And your little bit of snowflakery at Sue Perkins shows you're grasping.

 

[Dave]

@AdrianH

If you'd like a bit more proof of how unprepared (and apparently not willing to actually prepare) the UK is.

Port of Dover asked for £33,000,000 to extend facilities, they were given £33,000, ask yourself, how far will £33,000 go?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1339241784996749314

 

[AdrianH]

@AdrianH

If you'd like a bit more proof of how unprepared (and apparently not willing to actually prepare) the UK is.

Port of Dover asked for £33,000,000 to extend facilities, they were given £33,000, ask yourself, how far will £33,000 go?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1339241784996749314

Thanks, I did read this earlier, I think its deplorable. Seems deliberate though?