The Brexit Thread

[OrbitalDawn]

Does this '100% control' thing only apply to immigration or other areas, too?

If yes, they're not going to be signing any trade deals any time soon, since they all inherently require compromises that include giving up some portion of control.

 

[Pitbull]

You're talking past each other.

He's saying that if immigration (as a whole) is considered a problem, they've been able to reduce that if they wanted to. They haven't, ergo...

Or is only EU immigration specifically considered a problem?

The 'having control' over EU immigration is a separate point.

Not talking past each other. Britain leaving EU is exactly what Brexit is. Thus EU passport holders that they want to limit. That's it, nothing more nothing less. Not a separate point, THE point.

They have an immigration problem, we all can agree to that. Their Brexit focus is aimed at EU and EU only. The other immigration issues are a separate issue as you would like to call it.

 

[f2wohf]

Does this '100% control' thing only apply to immigration or other areas, too?

If yes, they're not going to be signing any trade deals any time soon, since they all inherently require compromises that include giving up some portion of control.

They should also stop having foreign products. How can you control something produced overseas?

Including tea...

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Does this '100% control' thing only apply to immigration or other areas, too?
If yes, they're not going to be signing any trade deals any time soon, since they all inherently require compromises that include giving up some portion of control.

Compromising on specific issues for individual trade deals that can be renegotiated in future if needs be is fine, it should be the norm.

A blanket agreement that forces you to enact someone else's legislation verbatim for nearly 50 years with no say in it whatsoever is something else entirely, surely you see that?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Compromising on specific issues for individual trade deals that can be renegotiated in future if needs be is fine, it should be the norm.

A blanket agreement that forces you to enact someone else's legislation verbatim for nearly 50 years with no say in it whatsoever is something else entirely, surely you see that?

Given that what you've written is wildly inaccurate, no I don't see that...

 

[f2wohf]

Compromising on specific issues for individual trade deals that can be renegotiated in future if needs be is fine, it should be the norm.

A blanket agreement that forces you to enact someone else's legislation verbatim for nearly 50 years with no say in it whatsoever is something else entirely, surely you see that?

Not for immigration. Free circulation and free movement of Labour have been part of the EU founding treaties since 1951.

The UK was aware of it when it became a member and agreed with it.

Not all legislation is imposed (Schengen, Euro...).

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Given that what you've written is wildly inaccurate, no I don't see that...

So you're happy to just flat out lie then to further your delusion?

Truly beyond hope ...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

So you're happy to just flat out lie then to further your delusion?

Truly beyond hope ...

You write something that is blatantly factually incorrect and when I point it out, I'm lying?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You write something that is blatantly factually incorrect and when I point it out, I'm lying?

Yes you are lying seeing as my statement is factually correct, have fun, both the EU and UK interpretations state it as fact:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516501/Rights_and_obligations_of_European_Union_membership_web_version.pdf

2.26 Member States have to make sure that any actions they take are consistent with the
rules in EU law, and must adopt any legislation necessary to give effect to EU law in their
national law.

2.27 Some EU law has ‘direct effect’.14 This means that people can rely on EU law rights
and enforce compliance with EU law obligations without Member States having written those
specific rules into their domestic law.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ftu/pdf/en/FTU_1.2.1.pdf

Directives
Directives are binding, as to the result to be achieved, upon any or all of the Member States
to whom they are addressed, but leave to the national authorities the choice of form and
methods. National legislators must adopt a transposing act or ‘national implementing measure’
to transpose directives and bring national law into line with their objectives

 

[f2wohf]

Yes you are lying seeing as my statement is factually correct, have fun, both the EU and UK interpretations state it as fact:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516501/Rights_and_obligations_of_European_Union_membership_web_version.pdf


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ftu/pdf/en/FTU_1.2.1.pdf

Except that free movement is an unconditional criteria for adhesion to the EU since 1951.

Not part of a new “set of rules”.

And the rules are not made by the EU, but by the 27 together in with certain majority requirements. I’ll let you read this, it’s clearer than I can explain:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/

Basically, for all decisions involving new legislation,
you need qualified majority (55% of member states, representing at least 65% of the population).

 

[C4Cat]

Yes you are lying seeing as my statement is factually correct, have fun, both the EU and UK interpretations state it as fact:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516501/Rights_and_obligations_of_European_Union_membership_web_version.pdf


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ftu/pdf/en/FTU_1.2.1.pdf

Where does it say that the UK had no say in creating this legislation whatsoever?
You specifically said: " enact someone else's legislation verbatim for nearly 50 years with no say in it whatsoever"
This is wildly inaccurate.
The UK will have no say in EU legislation going forward, of course, but as part of the EU they were instrumental in creating EU trade deals and legislation

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Yes you are lying seeing as my statement is factually correct, have fun, both the EU and UK interpretations state it as fact:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516501/Rights_and_obligations_of_European_Union_membership_web_version.pdf


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ftu/pdf/en/FTU_1.2.1.pdf

Nope, it's still BS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_legislative_procedure

To say the UK has "no say" and has to enact "someone else's legislation" is pure manure.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

To say the UK has "no say" and has to enact "someone else's legislation" is pure manure.

They have no say into whether or not to enact a directive. They ONLY get to choose the how, and even then the EU has final say in terms of how it is implemented. Go ask Hungary how well the EU received their new border fences ...

Pure manure is pretending they have a say when they don't, as demonstrated by Hungary and Poland for that matter.

 

[C4Cat]

They have no say into whether or not to enact a directive they helped create. They ONLY get to choose the how, and even then the EU, of which the UK is an integral part, has final say in terms of how it is implemented. Go ask Hungary how well the EU received their new border fences ...

FTFY
It's going to weird for you when you realise that the UK will have no choice but to enact the legislation they create for themselves.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

FTFY
It's going to weird for you when you realise that the UK will have no choice but to enact the legislation they create for themselves.

:crylaugh: do you honestly believe having a couple of votes in a parliament filled with hundreds of others who outvote you is "helped create"?

 

[f2wohf]

:crylaugh: do you honestly believe having a couple of votes in a parliament filled with hundreds of others who outvote you is "helped create"?

With this logic, there shouldn’t be any government at all since people in every country are subject to the power of the majority. It’s the same in the EU, at a bigger scale (and with extra protections such as the 65% of population approving it).

Why don’t you let the remoaner areas such as London and Scotland be independent then?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

With this logic, there shouldn’t be any government at all since people in every country are subject to the power of the majority. It’s the same in the EU, at a bigger scale (and with extra protections such as the 65% of population approving it).

It's not the same in the EU at all, the citizens are separated from the bureaucrats by many more levels than exists between them and their elected government. That level of bureaucracy should not exist, agreed.

Why don’t you let the remoaner areas such as London and Scotland be independent then?

Scotland had their chance, they can wait another 50 years for their next one, just like those who've been wanting to leave the EU had to wait. London? In what universe has a capital city become independent of it's own country?!? The idiots who campaigned for that BS simply didn't think it through, might as well sell perforated condoms, they'd be equally practical.

 

[C4Cat]

:crylaugh: do you honestly believe having a couple of votes in a parliament filled with hundreds of others who outvote you is "helped create"?

No, since that's not how it works though...

 

[f2wohf]

It's not the same in the EU at all, the citizens are separated from the bureaucrats by many more levels than exists between them and their elected government. That level of bureaucracy should not exist, agreed.


Scotland had their chance, they can wait another 50 years for their next one, just like those who've been wanting to leave the EU had to wait. London? In what universe has a capital city become independent of it's own country?!? The idiots who campaigned for that BS simply didn't think it through, might as well sell perforated condoms, they'd be equally practical.

Separated from bureaucrats such as the EMP elected directly? Because here you know the people at Home affairs or the department of fisheries? I don’t.

Scotland didn’t know it was Brexit a few years after.

 

[Pitbull]

My biggest gripe with this whole Brexit thing is that it was voted and as a country decided to remove from EU. The losers have now kept on whining and crying for over a year and will do all in their power to try and refute the will of the people.

It's done, the country spoke. Now let the politicians resolve the exit terms and everyone get on with life.