The Brexit Thread

f2wohf

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That would be pretty stupid wouldn't it? Surely the security of the entire geographical area is more important than policy and the EU needs Britain's Armed Forces as far as I know

We need to remain allies and collaborate, that's a given.

Do we need to share all of our secrets and technologies with them? Probably not.

They can probably pay for Galileo if they want it.

However, military spending is hardly a weakness of the EU relative to its neighbours or the rest of the world. In 2016, the aggregate spending of the EU 27 on defence was $198 billion, making the group easily the third largest military power in the world in dollar terms, after the United States and just behind China. Even excluding the UK’s contribution (the largest in the current EU), the bloc still spent nearly triple the Russian defence budget of $70 billion. Other than Saudi Arabia, which is critically dependent on European and US technology and support, no other neighbourhood country spends more than one-tenth of what the EU spends on defence.

http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org....tegration 211117OS RR (004) Summary clean.pdf
 
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C4Cat

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We need to remain allies and collaborate, that's a given.

Do we need to share all of our secrets and technologies with them? Probably not.

They can probably pay for Galileo if they want it.



http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org....tegration 211117OS RR (004) Summary clean.pdf
I'm reading up more on Galileo now, but, at first glance, it seems to me that it would be to Europe's advantage to give the UK access to this technology. I may think differently after my research though!

Edit: you are correct though that the UK would need to continue contributing financially towards the project if they want to continue using it and want to continue being involved in it's development
 
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f2wohf

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A rather brilliant opinion:

The latest pro-Brexit analysis has got its sums badly wrong
Assumptions used for the Economists for Free Trade paper are absurd

Chris Giles 9 HOURS AGO

An analysis by the pro-Brexit advocacy group Economists for Free Trade says the potential gains from the UK government’s favoured route to leaving the EU would provide a 2 to 4 per cent boost to national income in the long term. The results contrast with the unpublished internal Whitehall analysis suggesting a 2 to 8 per cent loss of national income from any plausible Brexit policy.

While Economists for Free Trade say their analysis has “comprehensively debunked” the Whitehall results because it accurately models “the clear objectives of government policy as stated by the prime minister in her Lancaster House speech”, anyone interested in UK economic policy must wonder what to make of these differences.

As far as we know, this time the divergent results do not stem from a fundamental difference in the type of economic modelling. In the new paper, obtained by the Financial Times, Economists for Free Trade praise Whitehall officials for adopting a type of trade model they favour. It bases its results on a published paper from the Canadian group Ciuriak Consulting, which specialises in trade modelling.

Three questions arise. Has Economists for Free Trade chosen reasonable assumptions, which best describe Britain’s current position and the policy choices? Has it reflected the Ciuriak Consulting paper fairly? And why does it achieve its headline results?

The answer to the first question on the assumptions used is an unequivocal “no”. Economists for Free Trade assume Brexit Britain has no tariffs on trade with the rest of the world, no non-tariff barriers with any country, and that border costs with the EU will be zero. The paper is clear on the last point. “We have assumed for the purposes of modelling that border costs are effectively zero,” it says.

On tariffs, British government policy is not to drop all import tariffs unilaterally, but to “do trade deals”. Dropping all non-tariff barriers is an assumption not just that Britain would say yes to chlorine-washed chicken, but also to lead paint on toy imports and cars with no emission standards at all. It specifically contradicts David Davis’s assertion of government policy, made in the Brexit secretary’s speech this week, that Britain will not seek a deregulated “Mad Max-style world borrowed from dystopian fiction”. And assuming no border costs at Dover specifically ignores the EU’s insistence, recognised by Britain, on the importance of its own regulatory autonomy.

The assumptions, therefore, are nothing like government policy. They are absurd.

The second question also produces a negative assessment. Not content with the results of the unilateral free trade option in the Ciuriak paper, Economists for Free Trade decided simply to multiply the benefits of that policy by five. Because it is inconvenient, it also ignores the paper’s conclusion that “the present value of the benefits of continued participation in the borderless [EU] single market would likely dominate, since the additional trade costs imposed by a . . . border would continue to be incurred indefinitely”.

The answer to the third question, then, is that Economists for Free Trade achieve their positive results simply because they assume leaving the EU has no trade costs and only potential benefits. There are also no costs associated with deregulation and only benefits.

Put rubbish into a model and rubbish will spew out.

This analysis should not be viewed as anything other than special pleading. If this is the sort of work that is influential among ministers and underpins policy, Britain’s economy is not in safe hands.

https://www.ft.com/content/9bddba54-16ea-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640
 

NarrowBandFtw

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BREAKING: the @eurelationsappg new cross party clause 5 to the Trade Bill just tabled by @Anna_Soubry,me, @NickyMorgan01, @S_Hammond & others providing for the UK to continue participating in a Customs Union with the EU -I believe we have a majority in the House of Commons for it

https://twitter.com/chukaumunna/status/966941759447040000

God bureaucrats truly are oxygen thieves! That motion is a complete and utter waste of time, who determines what qualifies as "all necessary steps"? Retards think this has any teeth whatsoever? :crylaugh:
 

f2wohf

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Just heard this joke:

How many Brexiteers does it take to change a lightbulb ?
We don't need lightbulbs because IT WON'T GET DARK and even if it does, it will be the fault of Brussels, Remainers, the Scots, the Irish, the young, Macron and Merkel, Lib Dems, Labour, soft Brexiteers, unicorn trainers..
 

f2wohf

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I just watched 12 min of May’s speech.

Am I failing to understand subtle British English or was she speaking without saying anything all along?
 

OrbitalDawn

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I just watched 12 min of May’s speech.

Am I failing to understand subtle British English or was she speaking without saying anything all along?

Actually she made a good case for why leaving the EU is an incredibly dumb idea.
 

f2wohf

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Barnier is a real gentleman though.

I would probably have answered in three letter «*@theresaymay WTF*».

IMG_5584.JPG
 

f2wohf

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Speak of massive delusion.

11Jan Farage: And maybe, just maybe we should have a second referendum on EU membership.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...l-farage-backs-second-brexit-referendum-video

2 March Dimbledy and Farage:
D: You once flirted with the idea of a second referendum.
F: No I did not, I said I feared -because there was a great Brexit betrayal going on- that Parliament may force a second referendum.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...ce-member-Nigel-Farage-Ken-Clarke-Brexit-news
 

Pitbull

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All these companies with their fear mongering...

Just get on with pulling out so that the UK can start working on other avenues to replace these companies and get the working force employed again. If they want to leave they should leave.
 
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Yip, the EU is all about German and French interests. Luckily Italy in Sunday's elections gave a great kicking to the pro-EU centre-left in Italy. Collapsing to 19% of the vote :crylaugh:.

Also once again, shows that despite the EU putting on some fake 'united front', there are some pragmatic members of the EU who aren't childish like the French and Germans are.

Italy's radical new leaders denounce EU Brexit strategy as foolish dogma

Leaders of Italy’s triumphant conservative alliance have called for a radical change in the EU’s negotiating stance over Brexit, describing threats to restrict trade and punish Britain as ideological idiocy.

“Great Britain is a friendly country with a long tradition of trading with Italy,” said Matteo Salvini, leader of the Lega party and the man poised to become prime minister if the centre-Right coalition forms the next government.

“You made a free choice with Brexit and I very much hope that it will be possible to maintain completely open trade with the EU without any penalties,” he told The Daily Telegraph.

The party’s economics chief, Claudio Borghi, said a Lega-led coalition government with Silvio Berlusconi’s Forza Italia and the smaller Brothers of Italy would refuse to rubber stamp the current EU strategy on Brexit.

“There will be no blind trust in what Germany wants. Punishment or anything of the kind would be sheer stupidity. We export more to the UK than we import back and we certainly don’t want to hurt our own client,” said Mr Borghi, an MP for Tuscany.
 
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I'm confused - has Hammond forgotten that the referendum was about 18 months ago? Why are Remain still in project fear mode? No-one believes them anymore. They've been in full on campaign mode for 18 months. Such sore losers! They tried it before the referendum - it didn't work.

Also love this:

Yep @guyverhofstadt, the nutters wrapped in EU flags shouting about Brexit all day outside Westminster are typical of the British people. Totally. Absolutely.

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/971118404219363328

So many British people feel and are proud to be European. The welcome I received today in London was overwhelming. It is my priority and that of the European Parliament to make sure that citizens' rights are protected after #Brexit #IamEuropean @guyverhofstadt
 

f2wohf

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All these companies with their fear mongering...

Just get on with pulling out so that the UK can start working on other avenues to replace these companies and get the working force employed again. If they want to leave they should leave.

When it’s South Africa who does not give clarity and security to investors, it’s a scandal.

When it’s the UK, it’s the fault of the companies. You don’t change the logistics supply chain of a plane or car manufacturer in even a year. Last time Airbus tried for the A380, it took 3 years to respect deadlines.

What do you tell your shareholders:
1. We changed it and spent billions on it but now don’t need it because the UK government changed its mind?
2. We didn’t change it and have billions in delay penalties but we couldn’t know if we would have to change it or not?

Makes sense.
 
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