The Brexit Thread

[Hamish McPanji]

Oh dear I dont think you have been paying much attention to Brexit if you don't think it had a lot to do with immigration and in particular, the drastic reduction of it. Have to go now, but will provide links that it was basically alot to do with immigration. Farage knew that, hence his poster

This one?

 

[f2wohf]

No it's not. You trying to make it one.

It's simple: Exit EU, give 6 months notice of deportation if not documented to stay (VISA) or whatever requirement might be needed. After 6 months, they out. Again, you making it harder than it should be. There is ZERO need for an exception to EU passport holders or UK passport holders.

It would only be fair to kick out the millions of British retirees from the French South West and Spanish coasts who have houses there and nothing left in UK in this case?

Would be nice to warn a bit more than 6 months in advance...

And good luck to have one construction site, hospital, bank or restaurant functioning in London without foreigners.

 

[f2wohf]

EU's Brexit trade plan rejects UK’s call for partial access to the single market
David Reid| @cnbcdavy
Published 1 Hour Ago
CNBC.com
The EU has offered its opening gambit for a free trade deal with a post-Brexit U.K.
The European Council president said there can be no cherry picking of the single market.
Brussels does concede zero tariffs and quotas on the flow of goods.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/07/eu-...k-desire-for-access-to-the-single-market.html

 

[Unhappy438]

No it's not. You trying to make it one.

It's simple: Exit EU, give 6 months notice of deportation if not documented to stay (VISA) or whatever requirement might be needed. After 6 months, they out. Again, you making it harder than it should be. There is ZERO need for an exception to EU passport holders or UK passport holders.

More fary tale thinking and thank goodness the UK isnt dumb enough to be so destructive to oneself.

 

[Xarog]

It would only be fair to kick out the millions of British retirees from the French South West and Spanish coasts who have houses there and nothing left in UK in this case?

Would be nice to warn a bit more than 6 months in advance...

And good luck to have one construction site, hospital, bank or restaurant functioning in London without foreigners.

EU citizens who own property in the UK could be given a residency permit and vice versa. Those who are currently employed could be given work visas. Those who are in the "wrong" place and have no property or employment could rightly be characterised as an "undersireable".

 

[Pitbull]

EU citizens who own property in the UK could be given a residency permit and vice versa. Those who are currently employed could be given work visas. Those who are in the "wrong" place and have no property or employment could rightly be characterised as an "undersireable".

No, doesn’t fit their narative... obviously if you own property and work said country would give residence. But no, they need to make it look as horrible and extreme as possible. Else why would Britain keep entertaining their shyte. And yes, thank fark I’m not the one having to implement it. Would have been done a long time ago and not a single farking cent paid to leave.

 

[Xarog]

No, doesn’t fit their narative... obviously if you own property and work said country would give residence. But no, they need to make it look as horrible and extreme as possible. Else why would Britain keep entertaining their shyte. And yes, thank fark I’m not the one having to implement it. Would have been done a long time ago and not a single farking cent paid to leave.

Same. And right now I'd be talking to Yankland and suggesting a fair trade deal with them while the EU commits tariff suicide.

 

[Dave]

No it's not. You trying to make it one.

It's simple: Exit EU, give 6 months notice of deportation if not documented to stay (VISA) or whatever requirement might be needed. After 6 months, they out. Again, you making it harder than it should be. There is ZERO need for an exception to EU passport holders or UK passport holders.

You really don't have the slightest idea if you think that would comply with UK law (not even considering EU law or human rights).

 

[Dave]

Same. And right now I'd be talking to Yankland and suggesting a fair trade deal with them while the EU commits tariff suicide.

The same Yankland that is just starting a trade war by adding punitive import duties on British steel? That sounds really achievable...

 

[Xarog]

The same Yankland that is just starting a trade war by adding punitive import duties on British steel? That sounds really achievable...

What's the problem? Lol. I'd have no problem working with Trump's minions to set up a trade deal that works for the UK and the US that results in a balanced trade profile for both countries.

 

[Dave]

What's the problem? Lol. I'd have no problem working with Trump's minions to set up a trade deal that works for the UK and the US that results in a balanced trade profile for both countries.

Do you also believe in fairies and the Easter bunny?

The Americans set up a balanced trade deal? :crylaugh:

 

[Xarog]

Do you also believe in fairies and the Easter bunny?

The Americans set up a balanced trade deal? :crylaugh:

The EU seems determined to play hardball with the US. Playing softball with the US would allow the UK to capture the EU's market share. If the Americans want to reciprocate, they will need to reciprocate with some sort of goods that they're selling. America wants to get rid of its trade deficit, so let it put its money where its mouth is, if they get clever with import tariffs, their exports can be burdened with a tariff while domestic companies hit by American tariffs can be given a tax break on their exports. The rules of the game seem fairly clear cut, and there's clearly an opportunity to be capitalised upon by someone with the will and talent to do so.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

They are judges of the members, genius.

Not judges appointed by the EU otherwise Bosnia or Turkey wouldn’t be there.

UK should get out of the WTO and the ICC because they have judges from European Union member countries too?

Following your logic, UK can’t be in any international organization whatsoever.

You obviously have a problem clearly communicating your position (weird for a lawyer). 'Doesnt make it populated by EU judges either' can mean many things, including my interpretation.

I'm fine with the ICC and WTO because they deal with *international* law. I abhor the encroachment of the ECHR on a nation's sovereignty (check how long it takes usually for someone to get deported from an EU member state to the USA for example. Read up on Abu Hamza)

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

What do you mean they dont need an exception? The UK will still have to do trade with the EU, they will need to come to an agreement/compromise to do so. This will naturally involve their borders ( bearing in mind many UK citizens reside in Europe). The idea that the UK will have your definition of full control of their borders is fairy tale thinking.

Why? Other countries do it (sort of). Why can't you trade and have control of borders? IIRC, NAFTA doesn't grant free movement between Mexicans, Americans and the Cannucks.

 

[Dave]

I'm fine with the ICC and WTO because they deal with *international* law. I abhor the encroachment of the ECHR on a nation's sovereignty

Why do you abhor something that has no bearing or influence on your life in South Africa?

 

[Pitbull]

You really don't have the slightest idea if you think that would comply with UK law (not even considering EU law or human rights).

You saying the UK or any country for that matter can’t deport people not authorised to be there? Ample notice is given to get your affairs in order. If your application fails, you leave. Simple as that

 

[f2wohf]

You obviously have a problem clearly communicating your position (weird for a lawyer). 'Doesnt make it populated by EU judges either' can mean many things, including my interpretation.

I'm fine with the ICC and WTO because they deal with *international* law. I abhor the encroachment of the ECHR on a nation's sovereignty (check how long it takes usually for someone to get deported from an EU member state to the USA for example. Read up on Abu Hamza)

The ECHR is a perfect example of international law, it’s not EU law and the Council of Europe is not an EU institution. The fact that 27 of the 47 judges are from EU member countries is merely because all EU members are ECHR members. And if it was a political organization, France would not be the country with the most condemnations.

The UK is a founding member and a signatory since 1950 (EU adhesion in 1973). You have all the rights to make a referendum against it, but it’s not linked to EU membership, as the simple market is not.

EU members also have to be UN members, doesn’t make that the UK now has to leave the UN, does it? Same for the simple market.

If you want to execute suspects in your backyard (as you probably wish was law), fine, but it’s another subject and requires another referendum.

 

[Dave]

You saying the UK or any country for that matter can’t deport people not authorised to be there? Ample notice is given to get your affairs in order. If your application fails, you leave. Simple as that

The UK very seldom implements retrospective legislation, a person who is legally settled here can't suddenly become not authorised, try and remember the UK isn't a banana republic.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

The ECHR is a perfect example of international law, it’s not EU law and the Council of Europe is not an EU institution. The fact that 27 of the 47 judges are from EU member countries is merely because all EU members are ECHR members. And if it was a political organization, France would not be the country with the most condemnations.

The UK is a founding member and a signatory since 1950 (EU adhesion in 1973). You have all the rights to make a referendum against it, but it’s not linked to EU membership, as the simple market is not.

EU members also have to be UN members, doesn’t make that the UK now has to leave the UN, does it? Same for the simple market.

If you want to execute suspects in your backyard (as you probably wish was law), fine, but it’s another subject and requires another referendum.

You can't argue it's not linked to EU membership if all members are forced to be part of it. Yes you can join it without being part of the EU, but if you are part of the EU then you have to join it. In other words, as it currently stands, the UK has to accept decisions made by the ECHR (although I do notice that they can ignore them, as in the case of prisoner voting rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirst_v_United_Kingdom_(No_2) - and actually this clearly another example of judicial over-reach where the British parliament has no appetite for this sort of nonsense yet are being hounded by a foreign court).

And wtf is the 'simple market' ? Do you mean the single market?

And yes there are criticisms of it becoming an activist court:

Lord Hoffman considered that the ability of the court to interfere in the detail of domestic law ought to be curtailed.[12] He was in 2010 joined in the criticism by the president of the Belgian Constitutional Court, Marc Bossuyt,[13] who in 2014 also criticized the Court for being judicial activist as it expands the guarantees of the Treaty to issues that clearly were not included in the Treaty nor intended by the framers. Bossuyt especially criticized the Court's handling of asylum cases with respect to articles 3 and 6 of the Treaty.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights

 

[f2wohf]

You can't argue it's not linked to EU membership if all members are forced to be part of it. Yes you can join it without being part of the EU, but if you are part of the EU then you have to join it. In other words, as it currently stands, the UK has to accept decisions made by the ECHR (although I do notice that they can ignore them, as in the case of prisoner voting rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirst_v_United_Kingdom_(No_2) - and actually this clearly another example of judicial over-reach where the British parliament has no appetite for this sort of nonsense yet are being hounded by a foreign court).

And wtf is the 'simple market' ? Do you mean the single market?

And yes there are criticisms of it becoming an activist court:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights

So, on the same grounds, the UK should leave the UN or the ICC because UN and ICC adhesions were forced to and have overreach (foreign court and foreign sanctions). Basically, the UK should leave absolutely everything that is compulsory when adhering to the EU even if it was a member before being in the EU.

That means withdrawing of pretty much every single international commitment of the UK except the Commonwealth and NATO.

Simple market was a typo.