The Brexit Thread

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JayM said:
A new referendum is a reasonable request considering the change in circumstances. And the quickest way to drive up support for independence is to flat out deny it.
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Circumstances didn't change, Cameron already promised a brexit referendum before the Scotts voted in their independence referendum.

Two referendums on the same topic a mere few years apart is not reasonable, it's bipolar. I reckon the UK will find a way to say no without saying no, or they will just set it so far into the future that brexit will be long forgotten and the Scots will have lost interest.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Circumstances didn't change, Cameron already promised a brexit referendum before the Scotts voted in their independence referendum.

Two referendums on the same topic a mere few years apart is not reasonable, it's bipolar. I reckon the UK will find a way to say no without saying no, or they will just set it so far into the future that brexit will be long forgotten and the Scots will have lost interest.
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Scots were made believe that voting to get out will prevent them from remaining in the EU.

Now the situation is reversed.
 
f2wohf said:
Scots were made believe that voting to get out will prevent them from remaining in the EU.
Now the situation is reversed.
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and Brits were made to believe voting for brexit will be suicide, strange how only the Scotts were gullible enough to listen to what others told them about their independence, they rolled the dice and lost, tough.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Circumstances didn't change, Cameron already promised a brexit referendum before the Scotts voted in their independence referendum.

Two referendums on the same topic a mere few years apart is not reasonable, it's bipolar. I reckon the UK will find a way to say no without saying no, or they will just set it so far into the future that brexit will be long forgotten and the Scots will have lost interest.
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While it was known an EU referendum was a possibility, Cameron's *2015* election campaigning included the pledge to have a referendum. So the promise only came after the indyref. Also, a lot of campaigning for continued membership of the UK included talk about it being the only way to guarantee Scotland's membership of the EU.

So yes, circumstances changed and I think it's fair to request another one. I think it would be bad for rUK and terrible for Scotland but there are grounds for it.
 
JayM said:
While it was known an EU referendum was a possibility, Cameron's *2015* election campaigning included the pledge to have a referendum. So the promise only came after the indyref. Also, a lot of campaigning for continued membership of the UK included talk about it being the only way to guarantee Scotland's membership of the EU.

So yes, circumstances changed and I think it's fair to request another one. I think it would be bad for rUK and terrible for Scotland but there are grounds for it.
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To understand why it's 'fair' to hold another one, you need to understand how Scottish politics works. The SNP are by no means popular but are leading party. It's just a move by the SNP to gain support.
 
ChocolateBadger said:
you need to understand how Scottish politics works. The SNP are by no means popular but are leading party.
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If you understood Scottish politics you probably wouldn't have written the second sentence...

Do you know how many Scottish constituencies are held by the SNP that is "by no means popular"?
 
Dave said:
If you understood Scottish politics you probably wouldn't have written the second sentence...

Do you know how many Scottish constituencies are held by the SNP that is "by no means popular"?
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Might Nicola Sturgeon’s sinking approval ratings explain her appetite for a referendum?

In an interview with the BBC last night, Nicola Sturgeon suggested that the autumn of next year would be a ‘common sense’ time to hold another referendum on Scottish independence. Which would, of course, mean voting without knowing what the terms of the Brexit would be. (Or, perhaps, whether it will really happen.) Why the haste? This is another topic that came up on Question Time last night. I suggested that Sturgeon’s sense of urgency might be explained by opinion polls showing her ‘tanking’ approval rating. The 2021 Holyrood election will probably end the majority for independence, given that the SNP will have been in power for 14 years by then and Scots will already be ‘scunnered’ with them (as Ms Sturgeon might put it).

Support for independence is about 45 per cent (indeed, a poll yesterday said 50 per cent). But the below graph, for the record, is what I was referring to: Nicola Sturgeon’s tanking approval rating, as measured by YouGov.

It seems she is being eclipsed in popularity by Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Tories. For many nationalists, this will not quite compute. Pete Wishart, an SNP MP, once declared that“we loathe the Tories in Scotland” – well, not so much nowadays, it seems.

My hunch is that the SNP’s record in government is starting to catch up with it, that Ms Sturgeon will – like her predecessor – end up loved by nationalists by not so much by unionists and that the SNP senses that the clock is ticking. That they may never again get a majority (which is rather hard under Holyrood PR system) and that the risk of a failed referendum in 2018 is less than the risk of no referendum ever again.
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Unhappy438 said:
The right doesn't own brexit.
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They were the group of people who instigated it. It wouldn't have happened with labour leaders.

That being said there were a few Eurosceptic people like Corbyn who didn't like it because it would make his dreams of nationalising everything just that much more difficult.
 
konfab said:
They were the group of people who instigated it. It wouldn't have happened with labour leaders.

That being said there were a few Eurosceptic people like Corbyn who didn't like it because it would make his dreams of nationalising everything just that much more difficult.
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Maybe but that still doesn't necessarily make it a left vs right thing. There are left leaning reasons and people to want Brexit. If im not mistaken the previous attempt at leaving the EU was initiated by left leaning politicians.
 
What is Davis smoking ?

"He claimed that Britain would be able to reach a “swift” agreement with other EU countries affecting the reciprocal rights of their nationals"

Nothing is going to be swift...

He also says that the government has a moral responsibility so that no vote is needed...

It's just pathetic, the government is drowning in quicksands by the minute.
 
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Pitbull said:
O so that's what's been going on for 21 pages?

Keep telling yourself that :D
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Keep telling yourself that there hasnt been and there isnt actual discussions surrounding brexit. With that logic and generalisation i can see how you might think every single person on the left is against Brexit and everyone on the right is for it.
 
Government defeats Lords amendments...gosh this is all getting rather boring from Remoaners.

MPs defeated the Lords amendment to guarantee EU citizens rights in Article 50 Bill by 335 votes to 287.

On the amendment to give Parliament a veto on a no Brexit deal, the Lords were defeated by 331 to 286.

The Bill will now pass back to the House of Lords, where is it also expected to pass without impediment.
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Chris_the_Brit said:
Government defeats Lords amendments...gosh this is all getting rather boring from Remoaners.
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How to sign for your own death.

Do you see Deutsche Bank, BNP Paribas, Société Générale, Santander executives and CIB activities (I.e. The majority of London income tax, rates and real estate stability) remaining in London after that ?

Even HSBC (a British bank by origin) is moving away...

You just scrapped off a big part of the financial industry's contribution (20%) of your GDP.

You might be happy alone but US is going to give a hard time to the U.K. for trade treaties, EU a harder one.

You might have a shot with China and India.

PS: I'm actually super happy that British citizen rights in EU will now be reduced, I might finally be able to enjoy holiday in Spain or south of France without being surrounded by them.

I actually see it all as beneficial for me, and sad in another way for the Brits.
 
f2wohf said:
How to sign for your own death.
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Pure melodrama

f2wohf said:
Do you see Deutsche Bank, BNP Paribas, Société Générale, Santander executives and CIB activities (I.e. The majority of London income tax, rates and real estate stability) remaining in London after that?
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Speculation

f2wohf said:
Even HSBC (a British bank by origin) is moving away...
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Speculation

f2wohf said:
You just scrapped off a big part of the financial industry's contribution (20%) of your GDP.
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Speculation

f2wohf said:
You might be happy alone but US is going to give a hard time to the U.K. for trade treaties, EU a harder one.
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You forgot the idiot who made that idle US threat during the brexit fear mongering campaign is no longer in office? :crylaugh:

The EU is a failure, way past its due date, whatever leverage it thinks it has will disappear once the next country bolts, let's see if the Dutch do the world a favour this week ...
 
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