The Brexit Thread

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NarrowBandFtw said:
No deal isn't crazy at all
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Economically it is, I saw a good analogy, it’s going to be like removing a single egg from a bowl of 28 eggs already mixed into a cake batter.

The UK just isn’t in a position to go no deal overnight without serious economic problems. Just the border checks alone would be enough to kill most businesses that currently rely on JIT processes.
 
Dave said:
Just the border checks alone would be enough to kill most businesses that currently rely on JIT processes.
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They can choose to honour free movement agreements without a deal, the difference being they then choose to honour it and can change it at will when they reckon they're ready.

Same goes for many other perceived problems, like the pallets joke. The problem is they never fathomed even the slightest possibility of hard brexit happening, so they are entirely unprepared. Still, nothing will light a fire under them quite like actually having just hard brexited, I bet nobody alive would have ever seen a UK government act as quickly and decisively ...

short term pain for long term gain, chuck the batter and start over, you were baking the wrong cake anyway
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
anything you do to by choice, without any contractual agreement or obligation whatsoever, is not a deal
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The moment you come to an agreement to do something beyond WTO rules you’ve got a deal. You couldn’t institute a special arrangement only with the EU if it’s not a recognised agreement as you would be violating WTO rules.
 
Who says the EU wont implement border checks without a deal? They wont have much choice. Under their own laws they are obliged to implement customs checks for goods entering from outside the EU if there is no deal.
 
Dave said:
The moment you come to an agreement to do something beyond WTO rules you’ve got a deal. You couldn’t institute a special arrangement only with the EU if it’s not a recognised agreement as you would be violating WTO rules.
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High again? This early in the day? Every nation on earth unilaterally decides which passports they allow without visas, with visa on arrival, with visa arranged prior or they don't allow at all. Take South Africa as an example, we allow the original EU bloc nations, among a number of other first world countries, to visit for up to 90 days without a visa, they do not return the favour, it is a unilateral decision by South Africa to aid tourism and there is no deal whatsoever in place, it has sweet f-all to do with WTO seeing as no direct trade is even involved.

Now extrapolate that to the UK as if they were not part of the EU at all, which they won't be after a hard brexit.

zippy said:
Who says the EU wont implement border checks without a deal? They wont have much choice. Under their own laws they are obliged to implement customs checks for goods entering from outside the EU if there is no deal.
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Noone says, they would look like the assholes in the tale though and they would fear repercussions to their own citizens residing and working in the UK. Odds are they respond in kind if the UK keep free movement in place a while longer.
 
zippy said:
Who says the EU wont implement border checks without a deal? They wont have much choice. Under their own laws they are obliged to implement customs checks for goods entering from outside the EU if there is no deal.
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Under WTO rules you can’t either. You can not show bias or favouritism to any trading partner. If they allowed goods in from the EU without restriction or checks you would have to do so for all countries.

Trade without discrimination
1. Most-favoured-nation (MFN): treating other people equally Under the WTO agreements, countries cannot normally discriminate between their trading partners. Grant someone a special favour (such as a lower customs duty rate for one of their products) and you have to do the same for all other WTO members.

This principle is known as most-favoured-nation (MFN) treatment (see box). It is so important that it is the first article of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), which governs trade in goods. MFN is also a priority in the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) (Article 2) and the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) (Article 4), although in each agreement the principle is handled slightly differently. Together, those three agreements cover all three main areas of trade handled by the WTO.
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https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact2_e.htm
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
High again? This early in the day? Every nation on earth unilaterally decides which passports they allow without visas, with visa on arrival, with visa arranged prior or they don't allow at all. Take South Africa as an example, we allow the original EU bloc nations, among a number of other first world countries, to visit for up to 90 days without a visa, they do not return the favour, it is a unilateral decision by South Africa to aid tourism and there is no deal whatsoever in place, it has sweet f-all to do with WTO seeing as no direct trade is even involved.

Now extrapolate that to the UK as if they were not part of the EU at all, which they won't be after a hard brexit.
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I’d gather you must be high if you think passports have anything to do with international trade.

Educate yourself by reading the WTO link I’ve just posted...
 
Dave said:
Under WTO rules you can’t either. You can not show bias or favouritism to any trading partner. If they allowed goods in from the EU without restriction or checks you would have to do so for all countries.
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pfff bullshit, they can easily apply some blanket tariff and do "spot checks" on "all countries", like all customs departments do anyway, no favour, and no problem

and, again, I draw your attention to MIDP and APDP, WTO rules have no teeth, they're disregarded all the time without consequence
 
Dave said:
I’d gather you must be high if you think passports have anything to do with international trade.

Educate yourself by reading the WTO link I’ve just posted...
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I said freedom of movement, YOU are the dumbass harping on about trade fyi, you can have freedom of movement of people and not goods
 
Dave said:
Until another trading partner has a grievance and it leads to a trade war. You forget that the UK will need new agreements with all the big non-eu countries as well.
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which not a single nation will do while the UK plays the victim and states it is only temporary due to unforeseen hard brexit and promises to set things right
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
I said freedom of movement, YOU are the dumbass harping on about trade fyi, you can have freedom of movement of people and not goods
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What does freedom of movement for people have to do with the current discussion? The entire argument relates to trade agreements and border checks for goods entering the UK (or exiting to the EU).

What does the WTO have to do with movement of people?

Grab a big handful of straws and try and pretend it’s somehow relevant...
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
I said freedom of movement, YOU are the dumbass harping on about trade fyi, you can have freedom of movement of people and not goods
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By the way, dumbass, the UK isn’t in Schengen, there is already control of the movement of people at UK borders.
 
Dave said:
The entire argument relates to trade agreements and border checks for goods entering the UK (or exiting to the EU).
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sure, the uproar about people being deported and what not has not been mentioned AT ALL during project fear and even gets mentioned today, no sir ...

Dave said:
What does the WTO have to do with movement of people?
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nothing, that's what I told you mere minutes ago :D
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
sure, the uproar about people being deported and what not has not been mentioned AT ALL during project fear and even gets mentioned today, no sir ...


nothing, that's what I told you mere minutes ago :D
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Except we’re discussing the movement of goods...

Can I remind you of the original comment you replied to?

Dave said:
The UK just isn’t in a position to go no deal overnight without serious economic problems. Just the border checks alone would be enough to kill most businesses that currently rely on JIT processes.
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Dave said:
By the way, dumbass, the UK isn’t in Schengen, there is already control of the movement of people at UK borders.
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:laugh::ROFL::laugh::ROFL::laugh::ROFL:

control as in: show me your passport sir/ma'am, oh EU? welcome to Britain

sure, "control", all those Romanians were "controlled" at the border and the social grants the EU forced the UK to pay them was also control

pull the other one, just like WTO has nothing to do with people, Schengen has nothing to do with freedom of movement at the UK border, Switzerland isn't Schengen either, you want to claim they control their borders too? :ROFL:
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
control as in: show me your passport sir/ma'am, oh EU? welcome to Britain
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The level of that control was decided by the incompetence of the UK government, they could have been far stricter but decided to act with the soft touch.

Current laws could have have made it far stricter (if they had had the will to do so).
 
Dave said:
The level of that control was decided by the incompetence of the UK government, they could have been far stricter but decided to act with the soft touch.

Current laws could have have made it far stricter (if they had had the will to do so).
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the social grants were dictated by the EU, the UK had f-all say in that matter
 
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